Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By imperialsam
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612948
I'm planning a three day trip to Bergerac in June in my shareoplane (a TB20). It will be the first time I’ve taken an aircraft away on a multi-day trip.

My concern is securing it for the two days and nights it will be parked there. Bergerac airport tell me they have no available hangar space, and there are no tie-down points on the apron. I’ve asked if I can park on the grass and use my own tie-down kit, but I’m told I'll need to ask the tower after I arrive, so the answer could well end up being 'non'. I get the impression that it’s the first time they’ve ever been asked the question :D

Am I worrying about nothing? Do most of you only start thinking about tie-downs when strong winds are forecast (in which case I probably won't be making the trip), or for longer stays or lighter aircraft types? Or would lack of tie-downs be a no-go for you when planning to leave your aircraft overnight, regardless of the conditions?

Being the cautious sort, I'm leaning towards finding another airport where grass parking is available, and buying myself a tie-down kit. Perhaps Angouleme, though it's further away from where I'll be staying. The Breighton twister thread has given me some food for thought... But maybe I'm being over-cautious.

Any practical advice from those with more experience of touring than me would be appreciated.
User avatar
By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612953
I've parked our Arrow at Bergerac for nearly a week with no tie downs in July.
Its pretty heavy but I don't usually fret if I can't use my own tie downs.
The forecast winds will have to be pretty strong to shift an a/c and you wouldn't be flying then anyway.

Top tip for Bergerac: Refuel with avgas the minute you arrive, don't leave it till departure day, when fuel queues will mess up your flight plan timings. (Also adds a bit of weight!).

Peter
PS Chocks are a good idea.
Edit Oh yes, and a cover.
Last edited by PeteSpencer on Tue May 22, 2018 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
mmcp42, A le Ron liked this
#1612956
Parked in many European airfields and not worried about tie down unless strong winds forecast.

Tie off the controls so they don’t flop around and put chocks under the wheels.

Refuelling on landing is a good tip for any trip but in the hot sunshine the tanks heat up and fuel expands out through the vents so don’t brim the tanks in my experience.

A touring cover is also good idea keeping the cockpit cool while parked.
A le Ron, AfricanEagle liked this
User avatar
By mick w
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612958
PeteSpencer wrote:I've parked our Arrow at Bergerac for nearly a week with no tie downs in July.
Its pretty heavy but I don't usually fret if I can't use my own tie downs.
The forecast winds will have to be pretty strong to shift an a/c and you wouldn't be flying then anyway.

Top tip for Bergerac: Refuel with avgas the minute you arrive, don't leave it till departure day, when fuel queues will mess up your flight plan timings. (Also adds a bit of weight!).

Peter
PS Chocks are a good idea.
Edit Oh yes, and a cover.


There was very little Wind at Breighton at the weekend , but a PA28 was flipped onto it's back !!. :pale:
User avatar
By Flintstone
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612967
mick w wrote:[There was very little Wind at Breighton at the weekend , but a PA28 was flipped onto it's back !!. :pale:





So what flipped it then, a mischievous spirit? :D
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612971
A TB20 is a relatively heavy aircraft and like most TB's - is not what I would describe as "Eager to fly".

If you think about it, your aircraft has a short stubby wing - and you need to have a pretty constant 65 kias before she will consider lifting off. So the chances of you getting a wind strong enough to shift it, are fairly slim. If you had a cub, or another lightweight aircraft that flies very easily - I would perhaps think differently.

I don't tie down my aircraft (ever) unless the forecast wind is greater than 50 kts. It is a very personal decision but IMHO, it simply is such a low risk as to not be worth worrying about.

Lastly, I would find a way to lock the controls with the elevators in the fully nose down position. This will further reduce the likelihood of her leaping into the air in the modest winds you are likely to experience.
User avatar
By imperialsam
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612982
Thanks all for the helpful and responses and tips. All very gratefully received.

Rather than buying a tie-down kit I might invest in a good set of chocks to replace the plastic Fisher Price ones we have at the moment. A cover, controls locked fully nose-down, and refuelling straight after landing all sound like wise ideas too.

Flyin'Dutch' wrote:What do the other sharoplane members do/say?

I have asked them, but no responses have been forthcoming so far. That, and the fact that we don't already have a tiedown kit suggests it's not something they're too concerned about, but I will check with them again.
User avatar
By Rob P
#1612986
Lefty wrote:Lastly, I would find a way to lock the controls with the elevators in the fully nose down position. This will further reduce the likelihood of her leaping into the air


And if the wind comes round through 180 degrees whilst parked? (Curiosity, not disagreeing)

The Shiny Colt travelled all around France and Italy and I can't recall ever picketing him. If I did it is only because the parking spot had some form of securing device already there. The RV has been anchored with a Claw when leaving it for days on coastal airfields.

Rob P
User avatar
By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612988
Reminds me of when we caused a few difficulties at Humberside a few years ago.
Popped in in a Cherokee for what was supposed to be a brief stop, so ATC allowed us to park on the southern apron rather than the (further away) GA apron.
Upon our attempt to depart, the starter motor decided to self-destruct, and we had to leave the Cherokee there for a few days until the engineer could repair it.
Apparently it required careful manoeuvring of Humberside's various helicopters for the next few days to avoid blowing it away.
On our subsequent visits we were direct to the GA apron!
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612990
Rob P wrote:
Lefty wrote:Lastly, I would find a way to lock the controls with the elevators in the fully nose down position. This will further reduce the likelihood of her leaping into the air


And if the wind comes round through 180 degrees whilst parked? (Curiosity, not disagreeing)



Rob P


If you remember your aerodynamics - whether the wind is from the front - or the rear - having nose down elevator is still the correct position.
Rob P liked this
User avatar
By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1613004
The biggest risk is probably thunderstorms.

Several years ago I was parked up at an airfield in the South of France, using the Claw system for tying down.

A storm went through one night, which normally wouldn't bother me, but it sparked off a tornado which took the roof off one of the (substantial) main hangars and spun my aircraft around, narrowly missing clonking into a motor glider parked down wind. It was highly localised as a Lancair parked next to me, not tied down, didn't move; nor did the motor glider on the other side. You could trace the tornado's subsequent pathway down the nearby road by the houses which had lost roof tiles in a very narrow strip running for a couple of hundred yards.

(I rate the Claw as a system very highly - my mistake was using it as a permanent tie down in wet Wales for a number of years, and it had corroded, considerably reducing its strength; two of the units snapped, one survived intact. I bought a new set which stays in the aircraft as it's now hangared)
#1613008
I've twice left our shared TB10 on the apron for a week at Angouleme. No tie-downs.

As others have mentioned, the winds/forces at work would have be pretty considerable to get a TB to lift off. So considerable as to probably scrap the trip.

There is then the question of whether any sort of tie-down that doesn't involve metal in set in concrete would stand up to the forces involved if they did occur.

A good set of chocks and a cockpit cover to stop the interior plastics melting in the sun are essential. I saw a fairly old TB10 on the ramp at Newquay on Saturday (no cockpit cover) and most of the plastic in the cockpit was discoloured, melted or bubbled up.

People seem to dislike parking brakes - perhaps they have a reputation for seizing? For a longer stay on tarmac I favour applying the parking brake as well as using the chocks, because if a huge gust of wind did cause the aeroplane to flutter a little and perhaps jump free of the chocks, then at least it wouldn't start rolling around subsequently.