Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1612987
I should say that there's plenty of scope for healthy debates about which system, how to integrate it into the cockpit, what needs sorting out in terms of user friendliness and certification...

In the meantime, no names no pack drill, but I'm professionally taking an interest in whether there's value in engaging with some of the research issues associated with EC (Electronic Conspicuity), with that in mind I went and had conversations with two busy flying school CFIs; both of them I showed evidence that on "their patch" reportable airproxes are running about 1 every 10 days. Their responses were, well, interesting.

CFI1: "My life is worth far more than the cost of these systems, how quickly can we get them into the aeroplanes?"

CFI2: "It's not legally required, so there's no way our school will spend that sort of money - our margins are far too small to justify it".

These are CFIs of two well known, well regarded schools which have often been praised on here.

G
David Wood, T67M, chrisadams liked this
#1612998
Genghis the Engineer wrote:I should say that there's plenty of scope for healthy debates about which system, how to integrate it into the cockpit, what needs sorting out in terms of user friendliness and certification...

In the meantime, no names no pack drill, but I'm professionally taking an interest in whether there's value in engaging with some of the research issues associated with EC (Electronic Conspicuity), with that in mind I went and had conversations with two busy flying school CFIs; both of them I showed evidence that on "their patch" reportable airproxes are running about 1 every 10 days. Their responses were, well, interesting.

CFI1: "My life is worth far more than the cost of these systems, how quickly can we get them into the aeroplanes?"

CFI2: "It's not legally required, so there's no way our school will spend that sort of money - our margins are far too small to justify it".

These are CFIs of two well known, well regarded schools which have often been praised on here.

G


If CFI2 said that publicly he would probably find that he had fewer customers to make a small margin on :roll:
#1613060
At the very least, #2 is missing a business opportunity...... " Now, before we go out to the aeroplane, there is an optional extra you may want to consider, For just (say) £1.50 extra, you can rent a (e.c. device of choice)
for your lesson. this will help you to concentrate more on the lesson itself and I'll be able to teach you better as my role as safety-pilot will be greatly reduced,as it would pick up and warn of most converging traffic.

Is it worth an extra £x to you for that peace of mind? Stude..."cheaper than a cup of coffee, yea, I'll go with that".
kids today! :roll:
#1613079
David Wood wrote:
Genghis the Engineer wrote:You have a private message David.

G

Nothing has come through. I'm a bid dubious of the pm thing since some appear to go astray. Could you try again?


Actually let's make it easier - do you want to send me a one-line email to boffin at engineer dot com, then I'll move it over to another email and reply in depth.

G
#1613081
The latest PAW is £256 according to the weblink earlier in the thread. So not £170 as first posted. Also, to receive FLARM you need a minimum of a £600 FLARM mouse. So the subject title is a bit misleading.

Yes, it can receive Open Glider Network (OGN) FLARM traffic IF you are in range of a PAW ground station rebroadcasting the OGN picture. I think this is a neat feature but I don’t think it could really be relied upon for collision avoidance - more for situational awareness of gliding activity.

No, SkyEcho cannot see OGN, but the new SkyEcho2 can connect a FLARM receiver like PAW to display FLARM traffic without the need for re-broadcast. Also, UAT could provide that capability and broadcast of much more than just weather. It all depends on who is going to pay for it!

@neilmurg
As for the original question “Why aren't we raving about this?”. Because it hasn’t quite hit the nail on the head for many of us - the use of another proprietary signal standard, like FLARM, means that it just adds to another standard to detect by extant receivers like other ADS-B In, FLARM or PowerFLARM receivers. The internationally recognised standard of ADS-B is the way ahead and when, or if, PAW starts pushing out ADS-B we really will have something to “rave about”. :thumleft:
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1613113
gaznav wrote:The latest PAW is £256 according to the weblink earlier in the thread. So not £170 as first posted. Also, to receive FLARM you need a minimum of a £600 FLARM mouse. So the subject title is a bit misleading.
That's wrong. Could you PLEASE be more accurate. The PAw is £170, the new Rosetta is £256. PAw receives FLARM via OGN, but only where there's a PAw ground station doing the translation.
That's because FLARM hide their data, not because PAw can't read their transmissions.

In conclusion, £170 is correct, the £600 for FLARM is wrong, the title is accurate and YOU are being misleading. I guess that's why your posts say 'currently on your ignore list' when I look at them.
#1613115
PB wrote:We (I) am not raving about it
Then don't buy it, that's fine. But other people have different priorities / risk calculations. It may be that you've never had an unexpected encounter with another aircraft, I have. I also am profoundly dissatisfied with the 'see and avoid' principal, it's not very good/safe and in the 21st century, we can do better. And for £170 (yeah, I said it again) why wouldn't you? Less than the cost of a biennial revalidation.

As I said, it's your choice, I've made mine and I'm happy with it. I don't see why you need to diss it, even if I'm wrong, it's my money and I don't believe it can make me less safe, despite some of the 'head down' fantasy speculation.

[edit] changed biannual to biennial[/edit]
Last edited by neilmurg on Tue May 22, 2018 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
seanxair liked this
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