[Wide-Body]

I am about to buy a Rosetta when it is available. It is an interesting interim product, especially if the ground stations get up and running country wide (especially near gliders).

I suspect I will own a Betamax in a few year, however for the price point, it will be great.

Now to investigate a small tablet/largeish cheap phone to dedicate display.

[leemoore1966]

I am about to buy a Rosetta when it is available. It is an interesting interim product, especially if the ground stations get up and running country wide (especially near gliders).

Just to let you know the OGN-R is pretty well established already, Paul Ruskin recently commissioned the latest station at Rutland near Peterborough UKRUT/PWUKRUT
This brings the current total of OGN-R Stations to 72
Thx
Lee

[map5623]

I am about to buy a Rosetta when it is available.

What is a "Rosetta"?

[Dave W]

http://www.pilotaware.com/rosetta/

Also linked to on page 1 of this thread.

[Wide-Body]

This brings the current total of OGN-R Stations to 72[/b]
Thx
Lee

Just seen that and "bought a glass of wine".

[gaznav]

Totally agree, differences of opinion - nothing personal and no malice intended

Thx
Lee

Yes, concur totally, debate is exceptionally useful and forms the basis of peer review

On the reference to ground based activities then my understanding was that 863-870MHz was always for Short Range Devices (SRDs) which are essentially low power radio communications systems. ETSI state that typically, the range of an SRD is a few cm up to 100 metres. Car key fobs and wireless alarms are examples of SRDs, as are Bluetooth and WiFi devices. RFID systems are also SRDs. (http://www.etsi.org)

Generally SRDs operate licence free in Europe. To be allowed this freedom of use, SRDs must inherently be devices that have a low capacity to cause interference to other radiocommunications. This is ensured by conformance to the relevant ETSI standards.
The low capacity to cause interference allows SRDs to coexist with other radio communications services. Consequently, SRD are permitted to operate in a number of bands across the radio spectrum. (http://www.etsi.org)

SRDs can be mass market devices or highly specialised technologies. There is a high degree of spectrum harmonisation across Europe for these devices. In most cases, once conformance with the standard has been demonstrated, a device can be used freely throughout Europe, with no need for an end user licence or any paperwork.(http://www.etsi.org)

The European Commission and the European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications (CEPT) SRD Recommendation categorises SRDs as follows:

• Non-specific Short Range Devices
• Tracking, Tracing and Data Acquisition
• Wideband Data Transmission systems
• Railway applications
• Road Transport and Traffic Telematics (RTTT)
• Radiodetermination applications
• Alarms
• Model Control
• Inductive applications
• Radio microphones and Assistive Listening Devices
• Radio frequency identification applications
• Active Medical Implants and their associated peripherals
• Wireless Audio Applications

Source http://www.etsi.org

OFCOM describe the 868-870MHz as the ‘high band’ and include a similar list of similar devices.
(https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... report.pdf)

In the ‘mid band’ of 865-868MHz they do include ‘asset tracking’ and I do remember reading somewhere that FLARM had sought to use this definition. I just can’t find that reference! But my understanding of what they meant by asset tracking is the use of RFID tags on high value shop goods?

So in the list above I cannot see airborne collision avoidance and so whilst both FLARM and PAW appear to conform to ETSI EN 300 220, they don’t seem to have fully met the CEPT SRD recommended uses. All of these uses seem to me to be ground based only? Now I’m not saying that PAW is doing anything against the regulations, but this is where my hunch comes in that using a band not reserved for aviation activities may not be as safe a bet as some might think. Removal of spectrum or change of use does happen from time to time and all I can offer in defence of my point of view is that 1090 is a very established use and would be hard to wrestle away from aviation - ADS-B devices, transponders, secondary RADARs and TCAS would all need to be “booted off” with lots of expensive mods to the global aircraft fleet.

Best

Gaz

PS. Congrats on the 72x OGN-R stations, that is quite some achievement.

[gaznav]

It makes more sense for the drones to go over to P3l!

I agree and there is even co-operation between FLARM and a Drone manufacture for such work.

I must admit I do have an issue with their promotional video though.

Flarm and UAV

We flew some FLARM mobiles on some DJI Inspires about 2 years ago when we were running a gliding course - whilst the FLARM was not visible to the drone pilot, it did make these small UAVs visible to the gliders carrying FLARMs. There was also a circuit and altitude deconfliction plan and so the FLARMs were just an extra safety mitigation.

Best

Gaz

[Straight Level]

So in the list above I cannot see airborne collision avoidance and so whilst both FLARM and PAW appear to conform to ETSI EN 300 220, they don’t seem to have fully met the CEPT SRD recommended uses.

The high band lists medical,telemetry and automotive to name a few.
These are generic examples and don't specify the exact application. How can every application and possibly those that haven't been thought of or implemented yet be listed

It states:- "a number of other applications take advantage of the non-specific 863–870 MHz SRDs Ægis Systems Limited
4 2210/SRDMR/R/3 aspect of the regulations. These applications include home/office automation, access control, remote controllers, medical, telecare, smart meters, telemetry and automotive."

Telemetry
noun [ U ] UK ​ /təˈlem.ə.tri/
the science or process of collecting information about objects that are far away and sending the information somewhere electronically.

Isn't that exactly what Flarm and PAW are designed to do?

SL

[gaznav]

SL

Absolutely, but it is open to interpretation which then leaves room for change - that is my long-winded point. The question was whether ADS-B 1090 would be denied to GA or would 868-870 be denied. Now seeing as 1090 is a dedicated aviation frequency and 868-870 is not, then my reasoning is that the latter may, and it is just a may, be more likely to be denied if it became congested.

[cockney steve]

^^^^^^^Or, they could make everybody using the spectrum for aviation purposes buy all new gear with 3 times the number of channels wedged into the same bandwidth.