Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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User avatar
By gaznav
#1612661
I suggest you need both Tom? Years gone by in my Tornado the RADAR Homing and Warning Receiver (RHWR) was both Aural and Visual - that is the best option in my opinion.

The RHWR is mounted at eye level above the left hand screen in my old ‘office’ in the photo below - it would also warn me aurally that I was about to get whacked by a missile!
Image

That is why I think a small eye level display and an aural warning is important.

Best, Gaz
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By Nomad63
#1612665
You need 88 per cent of your input circuitry to watch telly and eight to listen to the radio
.

All that I've read (and tend to agree with) suggests In high Stress situations the human brain filters out audio input well before visual keys
User avatar
By leemoore1966
#1612678
tomshep wrote:...
IF PAW are as smart as I hope they are, they are looking at an an audio output that locates the other aircraft around you and just injects into your headset feed

"Three o'clock Level"
"Ten o'clock low"
"Six o'clock Level converging"


Hi Tom,
Hmmm, we have had that since June 2016 I think :thumleft:

Shuttle forward to 3:00 minutes


Thx
Lee
User avatar
By TC_LTN
#1612692
gaznav wrote:Yes but the PAW and the SD displays are not what I am looking for. I want something small, easy to interpret and attention grabbing in my eye-line when I am looking out. So far only FLARM has a solution that I like. Even on a small smartphone the ‘radar’ displays are too big.

Image

Is that really not clear enough? SkyDemon Traffic on a iPhone.
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By tomshep
#1612696
My first and last IPhone, (a 5c) lasted fifty minutes before I destroyed it with a big hammer.
This to prevent me from going back to it and wasting more time with a counter intuitive labour making device that had distinct disadvantages over every telephone I had ever bought.
I shall not be buying another.
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By Nick
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612704
I use Power Flarm connected to my Trig TT21 transponder, so I have ADS-B out ADS-B in, Flarm, mode C, and S. The display is the Flarm V3+M. Amber LEDs for a warning, Red and a buzzer for a direct threat, with the distance and high or low. For me it works very well. The display is mounted just below the coaming and I don't notice it until it lights up. I am then looking the correct direction in an instant.

I went for Flarm a few years ago after a very close shave with a glider breaking out of cloud just in front of me. I decided it was cheap after that, like a good set of leathers and crash helmet on the bike!

I found that with the contacts overlaid on the nav device I was being drawn into the cockpit all the time, a bit like when a tv is on in a pub. You can't help but be drawn to it.

Nick
User avatar
By PaulSS
#1612713
@tomshep

My first and last IPhone, (a 5c) lasted fifty minutes before I destroyed it with a big hammer.........


Are you making some point about the iPhone or the radar display? If it's the iPhone then I suggest taking it to the Mac Forum. If it's about the radar display, have you read anything that has been written i.e. you can use it on any Android device etc? I think Peter pretty well emphasised you can get the PAW radar display on any screen that you can connect with wifi.

Given your comments about audio it is pretty evident that you're shooting from the hip without having done any research about the capabilities of the gear. It's very easy to either read up about it on their website or watch the videos if you don't like reading.
User avatar
By gaznav
#1612714
TC_LTN wrote:
gaznav wrote:Yes but the PAW and the SD displays are not what I am looking for. I want something small, easy to interpret and attention grabbing in my eye-line when I am looking out. So far only FLARM has a solution that I like. Even on a small smartphone the ‘radar’ displays are too big.

Image

Is that really not clear enough? SkyDemon Traffic on a iPhone.


It’s a bit too freekin’ big! I want to “look out” and not “look round”! Something half that size like the little FLARM display is what I would ideally like in a perfect world. :thumleft:

Can you run an iPhone and an iPad with SD and SkyEcho all at the same time?

Best, Gaz
User avatar
By PaulSS
#1612716
It’s a bit too freekin’ big! I want to “look out” and not “look round”!


You can view it in landscape :D

Edited to add:

Plus, as a Tornado ex-nav you only need to look behind you......as you always did :mrgreen:
Last edited by PaulSS on Mon May 21, 2018 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612717
gaznav wrote:
TC_LTN wrote:Can you run an iPhone and an iPad with SD and SkyEcho all at the same time?


A Sky Demon subscription gives you two simultaneous mobile devices you can use. Personally with this added radar thing I think it should be upped to three... :D

Not sure about multiple connections to the Sky Echo but I don't see why not. You can on a PilotAware.
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User avatar
By gaznav
#1612723
Paul - thanks, I’ll try it. You’re right, the 2x ios devices is a pain in the bum when you have an iPad, iPad Mini and an iPhone!

Paul - thanks I’ll try that as well. BTW - Just remind me, how many Tornados have we lost to Air to Air kills in a 40 year lifespan and tens of thousands of operational missions? :roll:
User avatar
By PaulSS
#1612735
Just remind me, how many Tornados have we lost to Air to Air kills in a 40 year lifespan and tens of thousands of operational missions?


That just shows how well you did your job :D

Whisper: Don't say anything to your mud-moving colleagues about ground to air :wink:

@Dave Phillips Ouch; it was meant to be mild mannered banter at the n......n......nnn.......n......observer :mrgreen:
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By PaulisHome
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612760
I think there's an important issue that hasn't yet figured in this conversation, which probably means that there's no 'one size fits all' solution. And that's traffic density.

If you are flying in relatively uncongested airspace, and your intention is to stay away from other traffic, then a system that alerts you to traffic inside a few miles will work well. A radar traffic service is an example of this. Or TCAS. PAW has audio warnings, not sure about the uAvionix products.

If the airspace is congested, then such systems are more or less useless. Being warned of traffic three miles away, when you have 10 contacts within one mile, is not helpful. That's where Flarm's anti-collision algorithms come in. You can keep your eyes out of the cockpit and will get told of dangerously conflicting traffic,

I've been experimenting with this. I've got the ability to split the screen on my nav computer in two - top half is a 'radar plot' of traffic (Flarm, ADSB and PAW), bottom half is map. My observation is that this works well when there isn't much traffic. When it's really busy it's much less helpful.

I think the various traffic awareness systems will need to put more effort into anti-collision algorithms, as opposed to traffic awareness algorithms if they are to overcome this. However, that's precisely where Flarm's intellectual property is (they have licensed some patents in the area). What I don't know is exactly what those patents cover, and so how restrictive they are.

Paul
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