Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By exfirepro
#1612529
TLRippon wrote:
Still is a chunk of a box. Right now I don’t have anything between me and the view of traffic in the window.

Anyway I have a big red an white aeroplane, covered in flashing lights, pushing Mode A,C & S pinging up on every radar screen and TCAS on commercials and you still can’t see me.


And without a RADAR HEAD or TCAS , the Mk1 Eyeball STILL CAN’T SEE YOUR MODE A,C,S and WON’T HAVE A CLUE YOU’RE THERE - ESPECIALLY IF APPROACHING FROM A BLIND SPOT, RATHER THAN TOWARDS ONE OF THEIR ‘WINDOWS’.

With my PilotAware, I WILL get early warning of your presence from your Mode C/S transmissions, WELL BEFORE YOU ARE IN VISUAL RANGE AND IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR DIRECTION OF APPROACH, and will instantly know your altitude, whether you are climbing towards me from below or descending on top of my wing (that one nearly cost me my life a year ago), closing at the same altitude, moving parallel, or moving away. All it takes is intelligent interpretation of the on-screen warnings.

Oh.... and of course, I don’t even need to look at the screen, because the same warnings are passed to me audibly through my headset, which was what saved me from the incompetent, who obviously couldn’t see MY flashing lights, ADSB, Mode S, FLARM or P3i transmissions yet decided it was safe to descend right on top of me near RAF Benson last May!

If you think having a simple Mode A, C, S transponder and relying on visual scan will protect you from MAC outside CAS, - I’m sorry to have to tell you, you are flying in Cloud Cuckoo Land. But keep them all on, at least I will see you coming in time to focus my eyeballs on the flashing lights and get out of the way.

Peter
Last edited by exfirepro on Sat May 19, 2018 6:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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By Straight Level
#1612530
TLRippon wrote:Right now I don’t have anything between me and the view of traffic in the window.


But you will have a wing (or two), fuselage, engine that will block your view of traffic, or is your big red and white aeroplane transparent when sitting inside? :roll:

SL
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By tomshep
#1612531
"additionally we are working on something very exciting which will be trialled shortly, which will render this data far more useful.
Something no other Conspicuity device can do - at any price "

No, Lee. Targeting air to air missiles using the PAW data is very naughty and you will be sent straight to bed with no supper.
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By TLRippon
#1612546
I think you are missing the point.
To be clear, I’m very pleased you all can see me in your PAW but when I tried the original all I could see was loads of airliners flying 30,000’ above me and little else. I guess it has improved then?
So when I am forced to spend £800 on a mod to connect my transponder to my GPS I then have to buy one of your boxes and change from SkyDemon to Easy VFR to be able to see anyone else?
User avatar
By Dave Phillips
#1612549
"additionally we are working on something very exciting which will be trialled shortly, which will render this data far more useful.
Something no other Conspicuity device can do - at any price "


.... and there lies The Problem. Industry need to be working together on this EC issue, not trying to trump each other.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612550
TLRippon wrote:change from SkyDemon to Easy VFR to be able to see anyone else?


It works well with Sky Demon.

The more PilotAware units out there, the more aeroplanes you'll be able to see. I don't know when you tried the system but there are 2000-odd aeroplanes now with it in. Also ADS-B is slowly gaining traction and you'll be able to see those too.
By Nick
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612552
The trouble is Paul, whatever we have, there are a lot of Ostriches out there with their heads firmly stuck in the sand.

Nick
User avatar
By tomshep
#1612556
Or, alternatively, keeping their money in their pockets until a common standard is agreed that would be available at a price they are happy with.
Spending other people's money for them is neither appropriate nor likely to save anybody's life.
While development is in such a state of flux and the ground based possibilities in such a fog of indecision, you buy on the understanding that you may well have to throw it away in a short time. Take up will occur once a sensible approach is taken towards inexpensive ADS-B out equipment.
Most of the big stuff (£20,000+ aircraft,) is mode S equipped. It suits their capabilities well.
Lots of cheaper aircraft are out there, having killed nobody and decades old, operated by keen, careful but impecunious people who regard £500 as a lot of money to spend.
They aren't ostriches (they can fly, after all,) they just haven't money to WASTE and until the situation is clear and not just a set of robust opinions, they will not be investing in EC.
User avatar
By Ian Melville
#1612572
Straight Level wrote:
TLRippon wrote:Right now I don’t have anything between me and the view of traffic in the window.


But you will have a wing (or two), fuselage, engine that will block your view of traffic, or is your big red and white aeroplane transparent when sitting inside? :roll:

SL


And you don't have to fit it on top of the coaming, though you will need to find a location for the two antenna. There are plenty of below panel, or hidden installations of PAW out there.
By Cessna57
#1612574
tomshep wrote:who regard £500 as a lot of money to spend.


I don’t know what is gained by keep misrepresenting the price.

PAW is £139+vat

That’s a long way from what keeps being quoted as a reason for not buying one.

You don’t want one out of principle? Fine.. but don’t pretend it’s a price issue and then keep misrepresenting it.
By LUFTY
#1612575
I have followed all the numerous threads with some interest and bemusement about the competing products and standards.

Once the CAA and EASA allow simultaneous Mode S and ADS-B transmissions then for me it is abundantly clear there will be only one standard of 1090 ADS-B Out.
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User avatar
By PaulSS
#1612578
Once the CAA and EASA allow simultaneous Mode S and ADS-B transmissions then for me it is abundantly clear there will be only one standard of 1090 ADS-B Out.


Ah, good, I've been looking for someone to clear this all up. Since there will be only one standard:

Will the ADSB be Mode S extended squitter or just 1090?

SIL 0,1 or 3?

I have no doubt the CAA will eventually allow simultaneous Mode S and ADSB but, for me, the above are not abundantly clear, so perhaps you could put me straight.

Thanks :thumleft:
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User avatar
By tomshep
#1612583
Cessna 57: you have misrepresented my point. PAW does not offer ADSB out which looks like becoming the requirement.
SkyEcho does but ground infrastructure has not yet caught up with it.

To suggest that I would not fit EC on principle is most offensive and implies that I have both a selfish attitude and a disdain for the safety of others which I certainly do not.
User avatar
By leemoore1966
#1612584
Dave Phillips wrote:.... and there lies The Problem. Industry need to be working together on this EC issue, not trying to trump each other.


We haven’t even described publicly what we are looking to develop and trial, so I cannot see how you can brand it a problem?

Can you elaborate on what the problem is, specifically with respect to the feature we may look to add into the product that we have not yet described?

Our users ask for new features, if they sound useful we try to develop, what is wrong about that ?
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By G-JWTP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1612585
My perspective,

Flying home yesterday passing Sevenoaks I received a warning of conflict on my SD tablet.

Now I looked, and looked, and looked, and still saw nothing.

By this time my tablet is clanging and banging and making a bit of a racket and the conflicting traffic was now about 1 mile away according to SD. So a 30° course change and a Navajo went down my LHS at about 800 yds.

I am certain that without EC we would have had, at best, an air miss at worst well, you get the picture.

I'm of the opinion that it could be mode A,C,S, PAW, ADS B, combinations of all of them, or even witchcraft, I don't care!

If it keeps me, and others, from getting hurt then it has to be a good idea. In the scheme of things , any item sub £2,000.00 , is a lot more cost effective than a funeral bill.

G-JWTP.
Last edited by G-JWTP on Sun May 20, 2018 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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