Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By johnm
#1609652
I know there was a thread on this a while back but I couldn't dredge it out:

This appeared in my email this morning :

Pilots are required to submit certified copies of their ID (such as passport or driving licence) for certain Flight Crew Licensing applications.
For security and fraud prevention reasons, the UK CAA is no longer able to accept black and white copies of ID documents.
Any applications submitted on or after 14 May 2018 which require ID documents to be submitted, will be rejected if the ID documents are not in colour, leading to a delay in your application.
The ID document must also be certified. Please refer to our website for more information on who can certify your documents.


What kind of an idiot thinks it's harder to forge a certified copy in colour rather than black and white??? :roll:
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By Dave W
#1609653
Ah, great.

A cynic might think that's a retrospective rule change to avoid admitting they were wrong earlier.

I truly hope they don't think that email is sufficient, and that in addition they will immediately update all their forms (essential*) and the relevant web pages**.

(The previous thread is in the Red Tape and Gold Plate forum here)

@johnm, just curious: Were you sent that email as a private individual, or as someone associated with an ATO or whatever?


*As an example, SRG1104 is still the 2016 version and doesn't state (p8) that colour copies are required. This information needs to be on the form, because that's what people will look at.

**The General Aviation page on ID Certification has now been updated and now states colour copies required. That wasn't the case on 23 April, when applications were already being bounced.
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#1609678
Dave W wrote:A cynic might think that's a retrospective rule change to avoid admitting they were wrong earlier....


I've just posted this on the other thread:

Europaul383 wrote:...Yes, they have shown it in writing, but only after they rejected the application, without informing applicants in advance of the requirement - at best disingenuous, at worst incompetent to apply a "rule", then inform stakeholders some 3 weeks later...

This just in:
CAA SkyWise 2018/75 wrote:Pilots are required to submit certified copies of their ID (such as passport or driving licence) for certain Flight Crew Licensing applications.
For security and fraud prevention reasons, the UK CAA is no longer able to accept black and white copies of ID documents.
Any applications submitted on or after 14 May 2018 which require ID documents to be submitted, will be rejected if the ID documents are not in colour, leading to a delay in your application.
The ID document must also be certified. Please refer to our website for more information on who can certify your documents.
[My emphasis.]

Which is the same GA page I referenced above, with the addition of "colour" but no mention of what has changed or when...

So presumably the OP's application will be processed without further delay, and licence issued with an apology?

P

PS I'm not even sure "For security and fraud prevention reasons" is within EASA law - so a true example of Gold Plate?

PPS Mods - worth a reference in GA? this affects all licensing applications that require ID.
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By Dave W
#1609682
Here's another thing I have never quite understood:

You need a Certified ID for Ratings. Why is that?

You've done a Rating course with a Approved ATO, who have seen your licence (and you!) as part of their internally required process, not least when the HoT signs the application form.

What fraud protection is actually achieved by having to send certified ID to the CAA? I mean, what is the motive for somebody else to apply for a Rating on your licence or for you to apply to get a Rating put onto somebody else's licence?

Perhaps I'm naive, but is there truly a credible risk of somebody perpetrating a fraud here?

(I'll regret asking this, I know, given the historic ability of the Forum to create the most convoluted hypothetical justification for anything)

Also, as pointed out on another thread:

rikur_ wrote:I thought the point of certified copies was that you're relying on the person doing the certification to check, therefore you don't need a good copy of the document yourself.
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By PaulB
#1609685
Dave W wrote:**The General Aviation page on ID Certification has now been updated and now states colour copies required. That wasn't the case on 23 April, when applications were already being bounced.


Interesting that they chose to make this change relatively unannounced, but they have (so far) declined to change the website for the the licenses valid for medical self med, nor have they produced (or mandated) a fit for purpose list of frequency changes associated with the 8.33 switch.

I think that sometimes the CAA get a bad press unjustifiably, but they seem to be earning it here.
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By rikur_
#1609688
I actually wonder if there are two separate things going on with passport checks.

I can see the point of an examiner certifying that I've seen the passport and it was a good likeness to the person who did the test (and has the same name as the applicant) .... that stops people getting their mates to pass their exams/tests for them.

I wonder what the CAA are then doing with the colour copy they receive? There are services available that will do quite a lot of processing of a colour passport image - some of it is basic (i.e. is it genuine, unrevoked, etc), some of it gets into facial recognition and checking with 'other sources' (that may or may not be based just east of Gloucester). The facial recognition stuff does work a lot better off a colour copy.
By johnm
#1609690
@johnm, just curious: Were you sent that email as a private individual, or as someone associated with an ATO or whatever?


I got because of what I signed up for on Skywise, I'm a private individual
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