Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Cessna57
#1606283
Hi all,

flying back from Weybourne via a nice coastal route, down to Gt Yarmouth before going cross country I was talking to Norwich on a traffic service, outside their airspace, but conscious of it (I don’t usually ask for a traffic service)

Controller asks me a question in phraseology I’ve not heard before (can’t remember what it was exactly)

Having always been taught to drop to plain English, I asked him to say again to confirm to me I really didn’t know and then said

“sorry, I don’t understand, G-NN”

Chap did then say to me

“It means what is the max height you’re going to fly up to”

a) Is there a better way to say “sorry, I don’t understand” ?
b) anyone know what he would have asked ?
c) Odd question for Class G airspace outside his controlled airspace ? (I presume he was checking I’d not conflict with something he was controlling? But I was in Class G)


(Skygods: No, nor do I usually, but I’m a relatively new pilot who’s expanding his horizons, 1 step at a time)
By matspart3
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1606286
Plain English ‘sorry I don’t understand’ is fine, it adds a bit of context to you saying the correct phrase ‘say again’ several times.

He probably said something like ‘report you maximum operating level’

It probably would have been for his situational awareness whilst vectoring traffic inbound or outbound in your vicinity. Norwich’s CAS isn’t joined to the airway network so all their IFR arrivals end up sharing Class G with you too at some point. Knowing roughly what everyone is doing makes his job easier and the environment safer for all users.

Hope this helps.
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By cotterpot
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1606300
C57
There are multiple helicopter routes that start at the coast so there is a gap between them and the Norwich CAS, plus the Anglia Offshore Safety Area. So it helps if they know your height.

Well done for asking in plain english.
#1606301
Cessna57 wrote:c) Odd question for Class G airspace outside his controlled airspace ? (I presume he was checking I’d not conflict with something he was controlling? But I was in Class G)


Class G or not there's nothing against a controller asking your intentions, regardless of service. If you don't know what your intentions are, just say. It might be to deconflict other traffic he's working or it might be for a load of other reasons too.

Also remember that as you were on a traffic service the controller needs to know this info if he's going to give you appropriate traffic information. On a TS you are also required to inform the controller of significant changes of level or track, for the same reason. The TS gives additional servicebut it also puts additional requirements on you too :thumleft:

Only saying this as you say you're a new pilot so please take it in the spirit it's intended :). I agree with the above, well done for asking in plain English. We all have RT we don't understand sometimes, no matter how experienced. The important thing is making sure you understand by asking, rather than trying to muddle through.
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By Highland Park
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1606307
cotterpot wrote:C57
There are multiple helicopter routes that start at the coast so there is a gap between them and the Norwich CAS, plus the Anglia Offshore Safety Area. So it helps if they know your height.

Well done for asking in plain english.

Plus the unexpected larger aircraft: an RAF A400M was in and around the circuit for about 30 mins during the week.

While not the busiest airport, the KLM traffic coming in from the East will be somewhat larger than your average light aircraft and knowing one of the controllers there (who is a top bloke), I’m sure they would want to be assured a) of your intentions and b) that you’ve understood.... :)
#1606310
It’s good that ATC take an interest in what you are doing. I know somebody........ :oops: quietly bimbling along OCAS and the controller asked if he was going to maintain that level.
What he was really saying was “Oy numpty, you’re flying towards class A, are you aware and are you going to start a descent?”
Quick look at the chart and it saved a bust, apparently :whistle:
#1606311
matspart3 wrote:Plain English ‘sorry I don’t understand’ is fine, it adds a bit of context to you saying the correct phrase ‘say again’ several times.

There's no point in saying "say again" if you've heard the guy perfectly but didn't understand him, he's just going to repeat the same words which you will continue not to understand. I'm not aware of any standard phrase meaning "I don't know what that standard phrase meant". (Which doesn't mean there isn't one, I do like recursive jokes.)
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By NDB_hold
#1606320
Waveflyer wrote:It’s good that ATC take an interest in what you are doing. I know somebody........ :oops: quietly bimbling along OCAS and the controller asked if he was going to maintain that level.
What he was really saying was “Oy numpty, you’re flying towards class A, are you aware and are you going to start a descent?”
Quick look at the chart and it saved a bust, apparently :whistle:


I’ve had that a couple of times from Brize (usually for London airspace) - 'CAS in your 1200 range 5 Miles, what are your intentions?' has woken me up more than once (I knew it was there, honest!)

Also on one memorable occasion 'G-CD you are squawking emergency' (I thought I’d set 7000..)
By Dominie
#1606331
There's a lot to be said for plain english sometimes. As a new PPL, I was once vectored into a difficult situation in poor visibility (I know I should have said "unable..") and the controller said "Opposite direction traffic, one mile, same height" and I just replied "I'm not going to see him in this!"
#1606492
Just to add another in the same vein as "max operating height" is "...in the block." Heard more in a MATZ area when you are requesting a block of altitude/height in which you expect to operate. Eg: "Request surface to 4,000 feet, in the block... G-XX". Or a question regarding block altitude/heigh (QNH/QFE) by ATC - the lowest and highest altitude/height you expect to operate in.
#1606498
Height = QFE so I'm guessing plain English colloquialism. Whatever gets you through and all that.

Speaking to the issue raised by the OP, it's good to hear of someone with the courage to check back in such a situation and even more courage to put their head in the lion's mouth called Flyer Forum :thumright:

With guys like this maybe there is hope.

Lecomber told a good story about ATC asking him things. Often in replying to an "intentions?' question his reply was along the lines of " standby I'm upside down going backwards" :lol: Priceless.
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By matspart3
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1606522
Gertie wrote:
matspart3 wrote:Plain English ‘sorry I don’t understand’ is fine, it adds a bit of context to you saying the correct phrase ‘say again’ several times.

There's no point in saying "say again" if you've heard the guy perfectly but didn't understand him, he's just going to repeat the same words which you will continue not to understand. I'm not aware of any standard phrase meaning "I don't know what that standard phrase meant". (Which doesn't mean there isn't one, I do like recursive jokes.)


After the second or third ‘say again’, the controller will find a different way of phrasing the question. Ask me how I know....
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