[flybymike]

I am not a gyro pilot, but have been told by one that CG changes are a much smaller issue than in a fw or helo, because weight is hanging like a pendulum from the rotor disc. Happy to be corrected ..

I don’t think the pendulous weights that OCB is talking about are suspended from the rotor disc.

[Cessna57]

I do find some of the responses in this thread a little odd. They sound like “I’m not so fussed if I kill myself, but what if I kill my passenger”.

I’m completely the other way round, I say to every passenger “let’s be clear, if there is anything (and I mean anything) I’m not happy about, then we’re not flying. End of. No “ifs”, no “buts”, I’ll be sitting right next to you, I’m quite risk adverse, so I’ll not fly if I’m not happy”.

As my starting point is “sod you, I’M not flying if I’m not happy”, I’m more than happy to fly all my loved ones (and nearly have), and other people’s children, etc.

Funnily enough the chap I fly most with said he’d never fly with me (yet we’ve raced cars and stuff together), he totally changed his mind when he saw how seriously I take risk. I’ll mitigate it to a level I’m happy with, then if you want to fly with me, fine, Let’s go flying.

I won’t be “extra safe” when you’re with me. I’m always trying to be that safe. If I didn’t feel I was safe enough to fly my loved ones, I’d not be flying me in the first place !

[rikur_]

I do find some of the responses in this thread a little odd.

Isn't it about others' ability to make an informed evaluation of the risk?

I consider that I have a reasonable understanding of the risks I take by GA flying in a SEP. Personally I consider those risks acceptable, and a fair trade-off between the enjoyment I get from it, and the risk I take.

The argument put to me about taking kids flying is that they don't understand the risks, and therefore cannot make an informed decision one way or the other. I guess it's a bit like the scorn of 'he was driving 100mph with the kids in the back seat' .... i.e. why did he expose the kids to that risk, rather than driving a nice steady 60 mph.

Personally as a parent I think I make various similar decisions on behalf of my kids, and am content with the risk / enjoyment balance that they are exposed to.

[Cessna57]

Completely agree, but if I was worried it wasn’t safe to fly a passenger, I’d not be flying me.

Another way to look at it, I don’t get more worried when flying a passenger, I’m always that worried !

That’s my only point, and it’s personal to me.

I don’t have children, so I don’t have to make those decisions, someone else makes them for me. I just have to make the decision whether I’m happy to do it.

Which I accept is completely different.

[OCB]

I’m rather risk averse as well, and am pretty immune to “peer pressure”, feel the need to show off (opposite in fact, my wife calls me a “papy driver”-was one of the first to use dash cam etc ) or get flustered cos some hotshot in a slick turboprop is getting itchy etc.

In my last club I was practically the only one to carry handheld radio in my bag from day one (with local presets printed and taped to back etc).

A part of it is definitely not having the funds to have my own, modern aircraft where I know the operational and service history. I got very close to buying a little a/c from a club in Ireland a good few years back, it didn’t happen and said a/c was soon after involved in a double fatality with the new owners.

I’d never go up in an a/c I felt unsafe about, but having one or more of my kids I know would add to the risk equation.

Adding the kids obviously adds a bit of physical weight (I’ll leave the wife out of the weight comments in case she reads this!) but I realise I am human and, other than the usual “defensive driving” to avoid nutcase drivers, I’ve never been in a high stress situation with the wife/kids where my performance might be the sole factor in the outcome. The inevitable “that was a bit close” moments I have had whilst up alone I’ve been happy enough with my decisions (and had no pride issues talking to guys back at the clubhouse to see if I’d been a muppet or not).

Sure, if I could get to the point of being in a good syndicate, getting a lot of hours in then that would change the risk profile.

Funnily enough, when my oldest gets to the point where he might want to take up scuba, I’ll have no problems there. He’d be under my watchful and experienced eye, and he’d be taught from day one to keep an eye on his old man...

autogyro club didn’t get back to me at weekend - will go to baisy-thy instead, flown ULM there before and seems they have a Calidus!

[rikur_]

Completely agree, but if I was worried it wasn’t safe to fly a passenger, I’d not be flying me.

I don't see "safe" as a binary, it's a level of risk.

Most statistical analysis would lead you to the conclusion that it's safer to go for a walk around the woods than going flying in a GA SEP. Going flying does have an increased level of risk associated with it, than many alternative ways of passing an afternoon.

But I don't want to just spend my life walking around the woods.

[Miscellaneous]

I don’t have children, so I don’t have to make those decisions, someone else makes them for me.

Can't be done…responsibility for risk assessment lies with the pilot. How can you expect your, for example, non flying sister to assess the risks of flying in an SEP? Your sister, for example, makes her judgement based on your assessment of risk.

So, if you are happy to take your nephew flying your sister judges it to be safe because you apparently do…and not because she independently understands the risks.

Sorry Cessna, but you are making those decisions.

[RisePilot]

Funnily enough, when my oldest gets to the point where he might want to take up scuba, I’ll have no problems there.

Your son can do that this year if he is 9; you can hold a PADI Jr Open Water License from age 10. Same training as adults, but limited to 12 metres initially. It work like this:

Divers 10-11 years old must dive with a PADI Professional or a certified parent or guardian, and dives cannot exceed 12 meters / 40 feet

Divers 12-14 years old must dive with a certified adult and dives cannot exceed 18 meters / 60 feet.

Divers 15 years+, depth and buddy restrictions default to those of a regular PADI Open Water Diver. Divers who were initially certified as a junior diver will receive a new card that simply says “Open Water Diver”

My son starting the training on his 10th birthday and now we've SCUBA dived together several times.

[OCB]

Thread being hit by a bit of drift here (that pun works for diving as well, yay!), he turned 9 a few weeks ago - but I’d need to check the regs here in Belgium. They generally dive under the French or Dutch organisations and not PADI.

So far he hasn’t shown any interest in scuba, but I might throw that onto the list for this summer. I live 20 mins drive from Nemo33 and I have 3 current instructors on my friend list

The only thing he has latched onto is my offer to take him shooting. There is a nice (Bond baddy lair style) centre ran by the Commune next to me. Above ground is a small general purpose out building next to small leisure centre in wooded country park, with petting zoo enclosure etc.

Discreet door leads down 2 levels of spiral staircase to the club room and galleries; 25m each with 10 stands - one for air weapons the other for firearms. Missus is not chuffed at all, but I prefer my kids learn weapon handling in a club.

Back to flying, anyone on here taken kids up on an autogyro + fw? Something tells me they’d be more thrilled by gyro?

[Cessna57]

I don’t have children, so I don’t have to make those decisions, someone else makes them for me.

Can't be done…responsibility for risk assessment lies with the pilot. How can you expect your, for example, non flying sister to assess the risks of flying in an SEP? Your sister, for example, makes her judgement based on your assessment of risk.

So, if you are happy to take your nephew flying your sister judges it to be safe because you apparently do…and not because she independently understands the risks.

Sorry Cessna, but you are making those decisions.

Good point. I’d not thought of it like that. You’re right, I am making part of the decision.

My thinking still boils down to, if I think it’s too risky a thing to do with a loved one, then it’s too risky a thing for me to do on my own.

[Cessna57]

Scuba diving....

Just the thought of it scares the living daylights out of me.

That is one of the few things on my list of “definitely won’t ever do”. I very nearly tried it once as a challenge to myself. I’m having palpitations just remembering thinking about trying it !

[OCB]

C57, diving is definitely not for everyone, but if my wife can do it....

I have family history with the sport. My father was active in the 50s and 60s - when being in the Forces they got grants for equipment etc. A couple of his best mates, who he set up the Forces club with, went onto start North Sea oil diving schools in the 70s (and did rather well out of it!)

I grew up with stories of my dad doing mercy dives, or finding Roman statues not far from the shore in Libya etc.

I actually think that most humans are divided in two - those who find great peace being underwater, and those who don’t. I think it’s along the same lines of the desire to fly to be honest.

Technically speaking, once you get past the mamallian response to being submerged- it’s probably the most basic way to get into an “altered state of consciousness” and also experience 3 dimensional movement.

Honestly, if you’ve never tried it - it’s worthwhile spending a couple of evenings pool training to see how quickly you throw off millions of years of “response” by breathing under water (and having your eyes open). It’s a tiny bit more technical than that, but not much.

Next thing you know you’ll be planning rebreather dives at Scapa Flow....

[Radar]

OCB,
Where in Belgium are you ? What's your local airfield ?

[r1flyguy]

I do find some of the responses in this thread a little odd. They sound like “I’m not so fussed if I kill myself, but what if I kill my passenger”.

I’m pretty happy with my safety, risk assessments & abilities to fly a plane & yes if something happens to me, i’d rather my 7 year not be sat next to me when it happens.
You can be the best pilot in the world and be involved in an unfortunate incident, theres a whole list of these you can google. Most recently 20’000 hour cathay captain and colleague killed in GA accident, etc....
Nothing to do with being odd but my perception of what’s valuable to me as i get older changes too especially as a father/parent/husband, etc

[OCB]

Just south of Brussels. Used to fly from Ursel. Closest is maybe Grimbergen, but it’s not the easiest.

Baisy-Thy is 45 or 50 mins drive. Tad annoying that Brussels Region is so badly served, but you’d get more support as a one legged hermaphrodite albino lumberjack with inverted piles than as a pilot wanting to fly from a small airfield around here