Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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User avatar
By PaulB
#1605912
Charley Farley wrote:
kingbing wrote:Thanks. I am am an EASA Part FCL PPL holder and am looking to fly EASA aircraft.


So, how did you self declare on-line?
Which license type did you tick?


So why can't you pick one of the top two (whichever is appropriate for your licence)
Image

That will allow you to fly non-EASA aircraft, but the ORS4 (which was published after the med dec web page) extends this to allow, subject to the published restrictions, to fly EASA aircraft also.

Why is it so difficult?
User avatar
By Charley Farley
#1605966
Why is it so difficult? Because the CAA web portal states:

"Chose license type against which you are making a fitness to fly declaration"

So I would be making a false declaration.

The CAA also state:

"This medical declaration is not valid to fly aircraft for which you require a pilot’s licence issued under EASA Annex I (Part-Flight Crew Licensing (FCL)), either a PPL or LAPL......."

I can only imagine the field day that the insurance people would have, if the worst happened.

All it needs is for the CAA to make their web site match their public statements. Is it too much to ask?
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
#1605968
ORS4 1260 makes it clear it includes (until at least 8 June) EASA aeroplanes.

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/1260.pdf

Licence holders must only operate flights:

a) in a United Kingdom (G) registered EASA aircraft (as defined in Schedule 1 to the Air Navigation Order);


There are two options.

1. Print off the ORS and fly
2. Don't fly
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User avatar
By PaulB
#1605973
Charley Farley wrote:All it needs is for the CAA to make their web site match their public statements. Is it too much to ask?


That level of pedantry, probably isn't at the top of their list of jobs.
trapdoor liked this
User avatar
By trapdoor
#1605975
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:ORS4 1260 makes it clear it includes (until at least 8 June) EASA aeroplanes.



It actually states...

8) This exemption shall have effect from the date it is signed until 8 April 2019, both dates inclusive, unless varied, suspended or revoked.


It’s the other one about national licence holders flying EASA aircraft that’s got the short extension.
User avatar
By Miscellaneous
#1605980
Having had to cancel my medical appointment in Dec. I rescheduled and had it yesterday, only to discover I had insufficient in my wallet despite having gone to the bank before hand. :shock:

I've tried several times to follow this thread and concluded the simplest thing to do is continue to help keep my AME in the life to which he is accustomed. :D

I reckon it's nowt to do with EASA or the CAA, it's a conspiracy by the AMEs. :lol:

The time expended and stress caused in trying to decipher the rules isn't worth the effort for me personally…in any event; as sure as God made little apples I'd still make a hash of it.

At those hourly rates I'm coming back as an AME. :D
By trevorjharris
#1606000
The last paragraph in ors4 1260 states

This Exemption permits the conversion of a UK National pilot licence granted under the Air
Navigation Order (ANO) into a Part FCL licence using a medical declaration.

It will probably be sensible to take advantage of this privilege as it could be revoked at any time.
It is probably advisabe to keep your old licence as well.
User avatar
By Charley Farley
#1606005
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:ORS4 1260 makes it clear it includes (until at least 8 June) EASA aeroplanes.

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/1260.pdf

Licence holders must only operate flights:

a) in a United Kingdom (G) registered EASA aircraft (as defined in Schedule 1 to the Air Navigation Order);


There are two options.

1. Print off the ORS and fly
2. Don't fly


Actually three options:

3. The CAA do their job properly and make their various publications etc. match one other.
User avatar
By Flyin'Dutch'
#1606014
Miscellaneous wrote:
At those hourly rates I'm coming back as an AME. :D


Believe me, you would struggle to put up with the moaning...

:D

@Charley Farley

I don't think we can help you any further.
flybymike, PaulB, davef77 liked this
User avatar
By kingbing
#1606585
The ORS4 1260 does make it clear. Thank for that Flyin' Dutch. Surely it would only take the website team a few mins to add the link to ORS4 1260 to the declaration website, at least as an interim measure?
Charley Farley liked this
User avatar
By Charley Farley
#1610286
A quick update on this......just had a third reply from the CAA and they still haven't answered my questions.
I have asked two things -

1) How do I self declare, because your web site hasn't been updated to take account of the license types covered by ORS4 1260?

2) Is the April 2019 limit for this exemption likely to be extended?

All they do in their replies is to give me links to their web site (where it explains what is involving in obtaining the license that I hold), a link to ORS4 1260, and a link to the self-declation portal (which still hasn't been updated).

Are these questions too difficult for them?

Incidentally, the latest reply also clearly states that pilots who use self-declation are limited to A to A flights (take off and land at the same place).

I have again replied and asked the same two questions and have also asked them to clarify that the A to A thing only applies when flying in Crown Dependancies and not within the UK generally.

The CAA say that they are really busy, with lots of e-mails to deal with. Would it not help their situation if they answered the questions put to them the first time, rather than dealing with the same questions 4 or more times?
By Dominie
#1610289
Charley Farley wrote:Incidentally, the latest reply also clearly states that pilots who use self-declation are limited to A to A flights (take off and land at the same place).

I have again replied and asked the same two questions and have also asked them to clarify that the A to A thing only applies when flying in Crown Dependancies and not within the UK generally.

That's pretty clear in the ORS. Para 6 says "In paragraph 4) iii) c) an “A to A flight” means a flight starting from, and ending at, any aerodrome within the same Crown Dependency".

So even if the interpretation of Para 4 (iii) (c) could mean the UK in general (which I think is a pretty odd interpretation anyway), Para 6 tells you clearly that it refers to Crown Dependencies only.
User avatar
By Richard Dastardly
#1610531
So - I want to Self Declare & have come up against the same issue! (EU Part-FCL to fly an EASA Aircraft) (G reg C172). Tried numerous times to get past the gate-keepers at the CAA to no avail :-(

Why can't they just add it to the website? - it's not rocket science!!
User avatar
By PaulB
#1610542
I'm pondering using the med dec.

My take on it is that I'd sign up to say that I was going to use it on non-EASA aircraft, and then just happen to notice that there's a subsequent exemption that now allows me to fly EASA aircraft too!

Win:Win!

My guess about the website, is that in the short term, they don't need to change it as it's clear that EASA aircraft are temporarily included (via the exemption) and that they have other things on their plate that have a higher priority.
User avatar
By Paul_Sengupta
#1610613
Yep, just use "for non EASA" or such.

As stated earlier in the thread, that bit looks like it's just for statistics gathering, and a declaration is a declaration, you're not really declaring the exact use of it as far as I understand it.
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