[romille]

It looks to me that all 832016 shares in Martin Baker Aircraft Company Limited are held by Killinchy Aerospace Holdings Limited, which has a number of shareholders Not Called Martin.

[romille]

I suspect that the main impact of this finding and fine are that any subsequent civil claim will be guaranteed to demand a significant compensation payout to the pilot's family. Whether that's from MBA as a company or, more likely their insurers, that we should be comfortable about.

G

If MB have accepted liability surely we do not need a fine to guarantee a successful compensation claim by the family of the pilot.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Romille - true, but it seems to be broadly the way the legal system works. HSE feel it is important to make the prosecution, but MBA's response has been as good as it might have been.

joe-fbs - a conversation you and I had in person not long ago. Haddon-Cave / Hawk MBS / Lynx / ETPS Yak.... MoD's (in)ability to learn and enact lessons is unedifying in recent years.

G

[Flyin'Dutch']

Not their finest moment.

[romille]

Romille - true, but it seems to be broadly the way the legal system works. HSE feel it is important to make the prosecution, but MBA's response has been as good as it might have been. G

My point exactly, if MBA had refused to cooperate then perhaps a punitive fine would be appropriate. It appears to me that it has nothing to do with justice but is just another way for the government to raise funds that it then squanders.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that in the context, £1.1m is a small, not punitive fine.

G

[Dave W]

What was the Lynx one, G? MRB tie-bar?

[Genghis the Engineer]

ZF540, 26 April 2014

One of the best pieces of robust accident investigation I've ever seen, but the MAAIB were probably the only MoD organisation who came out of it well.

G

[romille]

I think that in the context, £1.1m is a small, not punitive fine.

G

I suppose if you consider it against the £39.3 million profit they made to March 2017, but it is still a substantial sum.

[Genghis the Engineer]

To you or I, we'd be bankrupt.

To a company to whom that is under 3% of their annual profits, it's big enough to hurt a bit, but realistically, not large. Most of us carry insurance more than that on our light aeroplanes (albeit that you can't insure against punitive fines, so it must come from company or private funds).

G

[Dave W]

Ah, that one. Thanks, G.

[Waveflyer]

To you or I, we'd be bankrupt.

To a company to whom that is under 3% of their annual profits, it's big enough to hurt a bit, but realistically, not large...G

If the 3% is accurate the directors must be considering that they have got away with the offence virtually Scot-free.
Consider it in the context of your £100 fine for speeding and it’s a joke.

[cockney steve]

@Genghis the Engineer said

it's big enough to hurt a bit, but realistically, not large.

you can't insure against punitive fines, so it must come from company or private funds

I think that in the context, £1.1m is a small, not punitive fine.

So, Which is it?

Re- the Mil. thread on the dark side, them what knows, appear yo state that the powers that be, were well aware, chose to not only ignore certain procedures, but in doing so, failed to ensure vital safety information was recorded, available and disseminated among the transient personnel, most of whom do not serve 50 years in the same place, doing the same job and training their successors.

I would have thought a more fair, honest and transparent judgement would have
Rejected MB's changed plea.
Subpoenaed Airships and fitters (retired and serving)
Made the TRUTH public knowledge.

As it stands, It's another lie, fudge and cover-up, akin to the Mull accident. Those truly responsible should be accountable. As it stands our Military is unfit for purpose. I could not look any youngster in the eye and say " the Military's a great career and your leaders will support you"

Mr. Cunningham's family Victim -statement was, indeed, telling.
Edit:-quote;- "Sean's death was not an accident. It was a preventable death waiting to happen and we don't believe it was an isolated incident."
She said: "Lastly, I would like to address the MoD and RAF. I have one question for you. Where are you? Not one of you is here to represent my son or my family.
"Sean was so proud to be a member of the armed forces and to serve his country. He was the perfect ambassador for your organisation. He gave you his all and ultimately gave his life."

[Sooty25]

What isn't immediately clear is why MB initially pleaded not guilty. If at that time MB did not know the cause of the failure, then that was appropriate. If however they knew the cause, well, maybe not so good.

One question I will throw in, along with the fine was £550k prosecution costs. Assuming defence costs were similar, at what point would a company that believes it is innocent give in and plead guilty just to stop escalating costs?

[Waveflyer]

My guess would be that they would have invested far more if they thought it would get the result they wanted and their reputation wasn’t damaged.
Maybe they had to face the reality that the evidence against them was overwhelming.
Pure speculation and we mustn’t forget it was all as the result of a very tragic loss.