[flyguy]

We are looking to source Aviation LSJs to be worn in aerobatic aircraft with parachutes.

Following feedback from a boating chap about how, in his opinion, the usefulness of LSJs vary substantially, I wondered if any of the august forumites are aware of any studies or research that might make the selection process more simple.

Any and all input appreciated!

[neilmurg]

Previous advice has been: Marine jackets are the same and cheaper; don't get self inflating; get self inflating (cheaper) and disable the self inflator(simple); air force ones are designed to work best and together with the rest of the apparel - so join up...

[Dave W]

This article (from equipped.com) might give some useful thoughts about what to look for.

I remember that on the very rare occasions we wore both parachute and LSJ for helicopter trials at Boscombe, there was something to be careful about (as well as the obvious strap routings and parachute harness jettison considerations) regarding the interaction between the inflated lifejacket stole and the parachute risers - but unhelpfully I can't recall exactly what that was!

Some of the older squippers at Boscombe will remember, and also will have experience of lifejacket parachute combinations from when the Course used to annually chuck people out of Hercs or Chinooks into Studland Bay. Do you still have contacts there?

I'd be really interested in what you conclude.

[Rob P]

... don't get self inflating; get self inflating (cheaper) and disable the self inflator(simple)

I assume at least one of those 'self-inflating' was meant to mean 'automatic inflating'?

I doubt anyone would recommend a blow up lifejacket.

Rob P

[Iron Chicken]

As both a yottie, pilot and crew (rtd) I've a couple of comments which I hope are helpful.
The OP writes: "Aviation LSJs to be worn in aerobatic aircraft with parachutes."
There are marine LSJs and marine derived 'aviation' LSJs and the problem I haven't been able to solve is that the position of the gas bottle hasn't been well thought out to be comfortable with seat and especially parachute harnesses. That's going to be tricky to sort out, particularly if the parachute has an 'across the chest' strap. If I remember correctly the military (RAF) jacket had the gas bottle mounted such that it didn't interfere with the harnesses, although the standard seat parachute didn't have the complication of a chest strap.

I think it is necessary to try out a selection of jackets whilst fully set up in the aircraft, rather than in the showroom. Otherwise you could end up with something very uncomfortable.

As a yottie I consider crotch straps and a face hood necessary parts of an LSJ.

IC

[Iron Chicken]

And to add:

For aircraft use manual operation of the gas bottle - never automatic on immersion, unless you want to get trapped inside the aircraft.

IC

[Bob Upanddown]

I am just looking at the jackets I bought 10 years ago from Harry Mendelssohn's website and deciding what to buy and, to be honest, I am going to buy the same again.

[Lefty]

I too consider crotch straps and spray hood to be essential parts of / accessories for any decent life jacket.

I was recently researching buying life jackets in the US (for a US trip) - but I found that the LJ's on sale in the USA seem to be substantially inferior to those we buy here in the UK.
None had options for crotch strap or spray hood - and all that were on offer, for around $120-140 were standard yotti jackets - with auto inflation.
You couldn't buy anything that we would call reasonable for less that $300-350. It must be that they do so little log overwater flying that there isn't a demand for them.

[PeteSpencer]

ISTR at a BMPA meeting at the RAF club a few years ago, during the afternoon session the guy from SEMS said they were no longer calling them life(saving) Jackets , but flotation jackets, for fear of litigation if in fact a life was lost while wearing one.....

Doesn't seem to have bothered Transair though...

Peter

[Dave W]

They're still "lifejackets" on the SEMS website.

I'm a little conflicted on integral splash hoods/masks as an essential component of a lifejacket.

They are most valuable to health in rough waters; most of the time GA pilots probably wouldn't be flying in those conditions.
They are available as separate items for about £25-£30 and can be stowed attached to jackets.
There are quite a few complaints in some jacket reviews that the provided hood enclosure snags and/or doesn't close very well.

A spray hood/mask is obviously a desirable option, but I don't think I'd reject an otherwise excellent candidate jacket solely because it didn't come with integral spray protection.

[Trent772]

What's wrong with a bottle of Talisker..... ?

You ditch, you die - that's what I tell all the cabin crew on SEP days

[PeteSpencer]

When I bought my lifejackets, the spray hood, crotch strap and a faquhing great metal loop for the helo were considered essential.

10-15 % of body heat can be lost from unprotected head.....

And drowning can be caused by inhaled seaspray in double quick time....

Yep : Spray hood every time.

Trouble is many internet based apparently good value lifejackets are based on the US pacific/gulf market with warm still swell.: (As indeed are cheap liferafts which either don't have a canopy or have a separate lightweight one which has to be erected and attached to raft as a separate action.

Imagine that in even a force three in the North Sea....

Peter

[Wide-Body]

Take a trip along the coast to http://www.andark.co.uk. Take your chutes with you. Try them together.

We have two spinlock manual Life jackets. They have spray hoods (essential) and crotch strap. They are high boyancy version. We wear them with chutes, immersion suits and bone domes.

I know you are an ex crab but take it from a matelot, spend the money on a good life jacket.

[Lefty]

The jackets we have in the UK are good ones with crotch strap, and we have separate spray hoods attached to the jacket. We were simply trying to buy new ones in the US rather than trying to ship our own ones to the US.

And yes I have done the Andark dunking course, from which I realise that my chance of getting into the raft are pretty slim. But I still carry it in the hope that the survival instinct will give me the extra push needed to get into it.

[Bob Upanddown]

Trouble is many internet based apparently good value lifejackets are based on the US pacific/gulf market with warm still swell.: (As indeed are cheap liferafts which either don't have a canopy or have a separate lightweight one which has to be erected and attached to raft as a separate action.
Imagine that in even a force three in the North Sea....
Peter

We have two spinlock manual Life jackets. They have spray hoods (essential) and crotch strap. They are high boyancy version. We wear them with chutes, immersion suits and bone domes.

I have seen a few people wear immersion suits for a short cross channel hop. I have seen many, many more cross the channel the "long way" with nothing more than an old out-of-date lifejacket slung in the back. I am not advocating either approach but the ideal is not always practical. I have seen many two seat aircraft make a long water crossing with just enough space to carry one of the small "cheap" liferafts. Better something than nothing at all.

The problem with a lot of the good safety equipment is that is takes up room and, to be honest, is not practical for a small aircraft. I have seen huge liferafts in 4 seat Pipers that I doubt anyone would be able to get out and inflated before the aircrft went down simply becasue the liferaft was so big and heavy.

Whatever safety equipment is carried, participating in a dunking course (in water at sea temperature) will make you realise why some people carry so much safety equipment and how fragile that perspex and aluminium bubble is when the single engine stops.