[PaulisHome]

Please consider making a donation to help upgrade the OGN network in areas we all frequently fly so that gliders can be seen on the PilotAware traffic awareness system increasingly carried by General Aviation aircraft. To do so, go to http://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/gliderconspicuity (or go to JustGiving.com and search “Make gliders more visible”)

Forumites will be familiar with both PilotAware and Flarm. The number of GA aircraft with PilotAware systems is growing quickly, since the cost of a unit is low – less than £200. However, the two systems can't see each other, which is frustrating.

Following the fatal collision between a Junior and a Cessna near HusBos a year or so ago, the two teams involved in these systems got together to provide at least some of the solution. By upgrading the OGN ground stations, and adding a PilotAware capability, General Aviation (GA) aircraft with PilotAware can be alerted to the position of gliders in their vicinity.

I think that this is smart thing to do – better visibility of gliders to the GA world has to be a good thing, and the overall cost is fairly low.

So I’m working with the PilotAware team to try and get a good proportion of the OGN receivers in the UK upgraded to provide this functionality for this year’s flying season. I should emphasise that I’m not doing this as a commercial venture – merely as a public good.

Some people who run OGN stations are able and prepared to cover the cost of this upgrade (between £110 and £230). However, it would be extremely useful to have funds available to upgrade some receivers where this is not the case. If we can raise £5000 that should allow us to upgrade around thirty receivers that would otherwise not have been done.

Your help will be much appreciated.

[The presentation given on this at the recent BGA conference can be seen at https://tinyurl.com/yayb6h9y ]

With thanks

Paul

[rogellis]

I am fitting Pilot Aware (PAW) transponders to some gliders, so if anyone has any questions please let me know.

The PAW was primarily designed for light aircraft and microlights. It receives signals and displays contacts from PAW, from ADS-b, from Mode S/C, and from Flarm (via ground relays). Display is via any smart tablet or Kobo, that is wifi equipped. I have begun adapting the unit for gliders.

PAW is an affordable unit that can display a ‘radar’ type display of contacts in your area, or it can output the data to various nav display software packages like Sky Demon, EasyVFR, XCsoar and many others. It also has audio alerts.

The base cost of a standard PAW is £160 plus vat - plus some additional costs for glider configuration. Glider modifications include: protective box, voltage converter, amplifier, speaker, GL isolator, fuse, remote adsb antenna. Other options include remote gps antenna, and low energy usage adsb-dongle. Power consumption is about 5w.

PAW is certainly worth considering for gliders, as well as light aircraft. It is cheaper and simpler than either Adsb or Flarm, and gives more information than either. Standard Adsb may be good for ATC, but will not display nearby contacts - without Adsb-in-capability at lots of extra expense. Flarm mouse is cheap-ish and simple, but will not display Adsb or PAW contacts and thus depriving you of valuable information.

Roger

[patowalker]

I am fitting Pilot Aware (PAW) transponders to some gliders, so if anyone has any questions please let me know.
...
The base cost is £160 plus vat, ...

Wow! Transponders are getting cheaper.

[Rob L]

Paint the underside of the wings orange; that would help making them visible and not affect the glider fraternity from protesting about the "heat" issue.

Slingsby Fireflies seem to be happy with yellow on the top and black undersides...why can't gliders (made of the same stuff) be painted/gel-coated with something more conspicuous than white

[PaulisHome]

Largely because there is little evidence that painting them orange would do any good. The RAF did some studies with motorgliders with big orange stripes. I don't think they found much difference compared with not having them.

The issue is contrast with the background. The original suggestion of black is, IIRC, what the RAF found works, and it's why their trainers are painted that colour, White is actually not a bad contrast colour against the ground, provided it isn't snow. Less so against cloud.

But lookout is a fairly poor way of seeing conflicting traffic. Hence the need for electronic conspicuity. Hence the original post.

[Rob L]

...<snip> But lookout is a fairly poor way of seeing conflicting traffic. Hence the need for electronic conspicuity. Hence the original post.

Your thread title is "Making gliders visible to GA aircraft". The word visible implies 'ability to be seen', i.e. with the eye*. Lookout would be aided by gliders not being so white against a generally pale sky in the UK. Orange or black: there is no sensible reason why some portions of gliders can't be painted a contrasting colour to aid their visibility.

I disagree with your statement "lookout is a fairly poor way of seeing conflicting traffic".
Electronics isn't the solution to all the problems; I think you need to acknowledge that.

Rob
* admittedly, GA aircraft can't see at all, but their pilots can

[Ian Melville]

Largely because there is little evidence that painting them orange would do any good. The RAF did some studies with motorgliders with big orange stripes. I don't think they found much difference compared with not having them.

I can assure you it made them vastly more visible from experience. Approaching one from behind I was puzzled by what looked like two hyphens dead ahead, just above the horizon. It must have been a minute or two before the rest became visible. I doubt I would have run him over in this case, but it different light?

[Skylaunch2]

Largely because there is little evidence that painting them orange would do any good. The RAF did some studies with motorgliders with big orange stripes. I don't think they found much difference compared with not having them.

I can assure you it made them vastly more visible from experience. Approaching one from behind I was puzzled by what looked like two hyphens dead ahead, just above the horizon. It must have been a minute or two before the rest became visible. I doubt I would have run him over in this case, but it different light?

Suggest the question should be asked why the RAF Glider Fleet has had the dayglo stickers removed with immediate effect for any aircraft returning to service.... there can't be no reason for it surely?

[Skylaunch2]

...<snip> But lookout is a fairly poor way of seeing conflicting traffic. Hence the need for electronic conspicuity. Hence the original post.

Your thread title is "Making gliders visible to GA aircraft". The word visible implies 'ability to be seen', i.e. with the eye*. Lookout would be aided by gliders not being so white against a generally pale sky in the UK. Orange or black: there is no sensible reason why some portions of gliders can't be painted a contrasting colour to aid their visibility.

I disagree with your statement "lookout is a fairly poor way of seeing conflicting traffic".
Electronics isn't the solution to all the problems; I think you need to acknowledge that.

Rob
* admittedly, GA aircraft can't see at all, but their pilots can

Strobe lighting on the front of the fin is starting to be more common. And as composites have been advancing, latest gliders are now starting to be able to be able to have more colouring.
Manufacturers however have issued strict guidance on this and are very specific that only certain areas can be coloured, and the wings especially are spoken about, DG Flugzeugbau have a good article on the website if you give it a search, it provides a lot of detail.

[Remosflyer]

I remember seeing this at last year's Aero Fred's Haven:

https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/en/ ... mi-fliegt/

Complete airframe in red or orange is possible...

[Chris Martyr]

I disagree with your statement "lookout is a fairly poor way of seeing conflicting traffic". ]

And I agree with Rob !

[rogellis]

I remember seeing this at last year's Aero Fred's Haven:

Complete airframe in red or orange is possible...

This glider must be manufactured using high temperature composites, to be able to paint it in heat absorbing reds.

Regards glider conspicuity, this is not simply a case of visual lookout, as some of the conflicts have been with aircraft that are not easy to see. The 2016 Airprox Board records the following glider incidents....

Glider vs light aircraft ... .... 14
Glider vs military jet ... .. ... ... 4
Glider vs military transport .. 3
Glider vs helicopter ... ... ... ... 2
Glider vs civil airliner ... ... ... 1
Glider vs glider ... ... ... ... ... ... 1


R

[James Chan]

I disagree with your statement "lookout is a fairly poor way of seeing conflicting traffic".

While we shouldn't neglect a good lookout, some information on the limitations of see and avoid are here: http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/259.pdf

[Ian Melville]

Suggest the question should be asked why the RAF Glider Fleet has had the dayglo stickers removed with immediate effect for any aircraft returning to service.... there can't be no reason for it surely?

I’m no expert
I suspect they may gave been worried about localised heating. There was a test done that showed just putting markings on that were anything but white, light grey or silver caused a significant localised rise in temp. Newer composites are more tolerant to this.

[Lefty]

We recently had a visit from the new Royal Navy Helcopter - the Wildcat. They have installed a super bright strobe light. On the day they visited, the weather was really bad. 300ft base and about 1Km viz. However even in these cloudy and misty conditions, we able to see the strobe light when the a/c was over 7Km away.

I wonder if a really powerful strobe light might be a useful conspicuity aid - and it would keep pilots eyes outside the cockpit.