Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By chevvron
#1591636
Shoestring Flyer wrote:Pilots using Safety com 135.475 as a general chat frequency is becoming an increasing problem.
Also I now frequently hear it being used as an A/G frequency at some airfields which it of course should not be used for!

Correct me if I'm wrong but as fas as I'm aware, Safetycom must not be used for 'air to air' comms (except in emergency) and must only be used from aircraft either in the air or on the ground, not by ground stations.
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By Rob P
#1591638
You are not wrong. I think that's what Eddie Shoestring was complaining about wasn't it?

Rob P
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By Flintstone
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1591642
Joe Dell wrote:That reminds me. Why isn't a Unicorn called a Unihorn?


If you cross-bred a flying horse with a unicorn would the offspring be an air horn?
By chevvron
#1591643
Flintstone wrote:
Joe Dell wrote:That reminds me. Why isn't a Unicorn called a Unihorn?


If you cross-bred a flying horse with a unicorn would the offspring be an air horn?

When used for a certain person's personal callsign years ago it was always spelt and spoken a slightly different way. :twisted:
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By chevvron
#1591644
Rob P wrote:You are not wrong. I think that's what Eddie Shoestring was complaining about wasn't it?

Rob P

Unlike 'Microlight Common' (129.825 or its 8.33 equivalent) which apart from only to be used for microlight related comms, has no such restrictions however where it is used as A/G all transmissions should be 'topped and tailed' with the name of the airfield involved as they should be with Safetycom.
The BGA 'local' frequency (129.975) should also be used in this way.
Last edited by chevvron on Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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By Sooty25
#1591646
with 8.33 spacing, safetycom should almost become a thing of the past. With all the additional frequencies now available and the relatively low cost of a ground station frequency, even small farm strips can't really not justify it. Only 4 aircraft at ours and we have one.

I'm pleased Rougham has its own frequency now. Last year I visited when it was still using safetycom. No other traffic at Rougham and no answer from the ground. Yet between multiple unanswered traffic calls I had multiple aircraft at, at least 2 other airfields, flying circuits without stating where they were! Throw in a chap on the ground near Cambridge asking blindly for a radio check, to which I responded, and it all made Rougham sound nearly as busy as Heathrow. Only their inclusion of runway headings identifying they weren't at Rougham.

Note. this not a critisism of Rougham, not at all, they should be applauded for getting a frequency sorted.

Personally, I don't like safetycom and I think it should be reserved for temporary events at non radio sites.

joe-fbs wrote:Interesting test idea for someone with time and money to waste, attempt to rent use of a frequency from OFCOM with a DOC of the entire country and no associated ground station i.e. a chat frequency. It would be fascinating to hear OFCOM’s reply.


the calculator for working out the licence fee uses transmission range from a single point, a frequency covering the UK would be rather expensive!
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1591668
chevvron wrote:
Rob P wrote:You are not wrong. I think that's what Eddie Shoestring was complaining about wasn't it?

Rob P

Unlike 'Microlight Common' (129.825 or its 8.33 equivalent) which apart from only to be used for microlight related comms, has no such restrictions.


The Microlight frequency 129.825 is site specific and not to be used 'air to air'.

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%201606%20833%20Limited%20Time%20Exemptions_NOV17.pdf
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By kanga
#1591685
Joe Dell wrote:That reminds me. Why isn't a Unicorn called a Unihorn?


Latin, innit :)

[<classicist pedant :oops: > 'unicornis' (adj) and 'unicornuus' (noun) both go back to Classical literature (Pliny, Tertullian), as does the Greek equivalent 'monokeros' (Plutarch) </> ]
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By flyingeeza
#1591693
Shoestring Flyer wrote:Safetycom works fine if it is used the way it is supposed to be used. To give traffic position calls for awareness and nothing else.
The other problem is with the pilot caller not 'topping and tailing' their calls with the airstrip they are at.

Yep that happened to myself and a (lovely!) Pitts yesterday inbound to Holmbeck Farm...
Pitts joins overhead, he calls, descends, and turns onto right downwind, and I drop in behind him. Pitts calls dw 29, I call dw 29, no.2.
Someone calls final for 29, no readable airfield name, and the Pitts ahead of me had just turned base for 29, so he chucked the power on and climbed back up for a go around while looking for the inbound on final.
Eyes peeled, I decided that I'll carry on downwind, and turned base with a clear view of the final approach. No sign of Mr final 29, so I turned final and landed, cleared, and the Pitts landed less than a minute later.
Mr final 29 never did materialise. Bit of unnecessary concern for a while there.

The phantom inbound first called final 29 at 1504, and considering his signal strength, he could have been at Pitsford, Whittles or Bourne Park (all have a 29/11 only) but could well have been further afield with a good radio.

So if Mr final 29 is reading this...do learn to top AND tail with your location on safetycom please.
Ta.
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By Lockhaven
#1591707
Ben K wrote:
joe-fbs wrote:Interesting test idea for someone with time and money to waste, attempt to rent use of a frequency from OFCOM with a DOC of the entire country and no associated ground station i.e. a chat frequency. It would be fascinating to hear OFCOM’s reply.


Doesn't anyone use 123.45 anymore for that...?


Yes North Atlantic traffic.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1591714
I think Safetycom is a great addition to situational awareness out in the sticks, provided it is not abused for long conversations : However even these can be silenced by various strategies.

It is interesting to note that despite promoting Safetycom for many years , it is only in the last 2 years or so that the CAA have finally listened to us airstrip users and are at last officially promulgating the notion of 'topping and tailing' transmissions a la unicom.

I think it is a bit precious for us to whinge about its use as 'air to air' especially out here in E Anglia where just about every strip is 08/26 or 09/27 and still non 'toppers and tailers are chopping the beginning of their transmissions.

Now that we are going to be awash with 8.33kHz frequencies perhaps the CAA will allocate a couple for the 'natterers' and leave Safetycom to us strippers looking out for others simultaneously lining up on our strips.

Peter
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1591721
Flintstone wrote:Poor RT is one of my pet peeves and while what the OP describes is bad enough you should hear 121.5 over Europe.


Any chat on 121.5 is indeed inexcusable, especially from so-called 'professionals'. Similarly, there is no excuse for not keeping SafetyCom CAP413 compliant. If you want to chat, pick a more suitable frequency (and I'm not saying that there necessarily is one).

I monitor 121.5 on box 2 on all flights. I did hear a commercial come up today on London Centre, them having heard and ELT transmission in the Cromer area.

Iceman 8)
Last edited by Iceman on Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By ChampChump
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1591722
It took Whiskey Kilo Wanderer two years to get 'them' to publish the 'top and tail'.

SafetyCom is an excellent addition but there really isn't room for those using it for photo shoots and the like. I know a few people who will speak a few short words to the culprits and it usually does the trick.

When does Rougham get its frequency (channel, whichever)? Or have all its users not been informed?
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1591724
ChampChump wrote:It took Whiskey Kilo Wanderer two years to get 'them' to publish the 'top and tail'.

SafetyCom is an excellent addition but there really isn't room for those using it for photo shoots and the like. I know a few people who will speak a few short words to the culprits and it usually does the trick.

When does Rougham get its frequency (channel, whichever)? Or have all its users not been informed?


AIUI its already in use but they're also apparently monitoring Safetycom as well:

Peter