[Pete L]

Not seen him for a while, but I doubt the moobs have dropped that far. Any loose clothing and the expanding buttocks might be an issue.

Interesting. My a/c also has a relatively low Vno compared to normal cruise. Might improve the passenger brief and fly it a bit slower with unknown pax. Someone grabbing the stick for support at an inconvenient moment could well be a BRS-testing issue . (I'm not completely convinced the trim was the factor in this accident).

[Genghis the Engineer]

Not seen him for a while, but I doubt the moobs have dropped that far. Any loose clothing and the expanding buttocks might be an issue.

Interesting. My a/c also has a relatively low Vno compared to normal cruise. Might improve the passenger brief and fly it a bit slower with unknown pax. Someone grabbing the stick for support at an inconvenient moment could well be a BRS-testing issue . (I'm not completely convinced the trim was the factor in this accident).

Re-iterating a point here. The point is not whether AAIB adequately explained the accident - that is not actually their job. The point is that in the course of their investigation they spotted a potential cause of future accidents, and recommended how to stop that happening.

That is their job, and they did it properly.

G

[oldbiggincfi]

Offhand, no.

I've had a throttle runway on a microlight with a similar mechanism that jumped out and I didn't notice on my pre-flight.

G

If the sleeve is not secured with heat shrink, it should be secured with safety wire.

I would have expected Flying Controls to be a major consideration as part of LAA permit renewal. Surely something like this would not be missed or was the heat shrink just a recommendation ?

I saw the Heat Shrink Article written somewhere - remind me where .
Following that I always gave greater inspection to the trim tab controls on the preflight.
I am not involved in the maintenance nor do I wish to be !

[flyingeeza]

I've often elbowed both my throttle and my elevator trims while flying the XAir.

I recently hooked the trim rearward with the DC headset cables after using the hand-held and putting it back down on the pax seat. Bit of a startle but nothing too violent at 50kn!

Given enough time, if it can happen, it probably will, and sadly it probably did in the EV97.

And there's such a simple remedy for that EV97 trim hazard...a simple parallel upright guard plate that arcs just a bit higher than the trim knob's arc. One could even fit an adjustable friction lock to limit the travel should it indeed get bumped.

In fact...I'm going to fit just such a guard plate into the XAir.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Permit aircraft maintenance is the responsibility of the owner.

The permit revalidation - whether by a BMAA, LAA or CAA inspector is an audit of the owner's own care and maintenance of the aeroplane. This does include a fairly robust inspection of the aeroplane, but it's far from an infallible inspection and not done with anything like the rigour of a CofA annual.

Basically whilst the inspector should have picked this up - your dodgy cable termination is primarily due to your failure to properly maintain the aeroplane, not your inspectors. Not taking an interest in how a fellow syndicate member is managing the maintenance won't seem like much of an excuse when something goes wrong in the air.

G

[Bill McCarthy]

How big is the trim tab ? I wouldn't have thought that full deflection either way would have such a dramatic effect on pitch, leading to spar failure.

[oldbiggincfi]

G
A great reply and you are right on the mark.
I do take an interest in the maintenance but unfortanately there are deaf ears .

[morticiaskeeper]

The trim on the Eurostar is a very powerful beast. I have twice seen takeoff accidents attributed to incorrect trim. One was on a touch and go where the trim was not set for the takeoff.

Practicing for incorrect trim has shown me the high stick force required, usually both hands. I wouldn't want it to happen unexpectedly.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The trim on the Eurostar is a very powerful beast. I have twice seen takeoff accidents attributed to incorrect trim. One was on a touch and go where the trim was not set for the takeoff.

Practicing for incorrect trim has shown me the high stick force required, usually both hands. I wouldn't want it to happen unexpectedly.

If anybody wants to take me up in a Eurostar for an hour, I'd be very happy to do a few "test piloty" things and write a short report for the forum indicating the potential of the trimmer to cause the aeroplane to exceed structural g-limits. I promise that I do know how to do this without getting close to those limits myself!

G

[morticiaskeeper]

If anybody wants to take me up in a Eurostar for an hour, I'd be very happy to do a few "test piloty" things and write a short report for the forum indicating the potential of the trimmer to cause the aeroplane to exceed structural g-limits. I promise that I do know how to do this without getting close to those limits myself!

G

I haven't even got a medical these days, let alone a Eurostar

[cockney steve]

Apologies to any who were offended by my post,earlier.
It was, as astutely observed by Mr Sengupta, a continuation of the thread-drift started by Remos Flyer, a few posts before.,-Re- HB-WAV.
Anybody who followed his reference would have been aware it was written-off at 29.2 hours FROM NEW
by a pilot with 8.31 on type and 137.40 TT.
Pretty obvious I wasn't talking about G-GARB?

Sorry I didn't spell it out a bit clearer. and some were so quick to jump on the outrage-bus.....I expect it on the dark side, thought we had a better, more thoughtful and tolerant community, here.

Ian, Sorry, I'm normally pretty thick-skinned, but , yes, i'm upset.

[flyingakite]

CS: no outrage here but I didn't think your comments were right either way. I'd rather keep any more discussion here useful, so feel free to PM.

[GolfHotel]

I do take an interest in the maintenance but unfortanately there are deaf ears .

Time to leave the group?

[GolfHotel]

The trim on the Eurostar is a very powerful beast. I have twice seen takeoff accidents attributed to incorrect trim. One was on a touch and go where the trim was not set for the takeoff.

Practicing for incorrect trim has shown me the high stick force required, usually both hands. I wouldn't want it to happen unexpectedly.

If anybody wants to take me up in a Eurostar for an hour, I'd be very happy to do a few "test piloty" things and write a short report for the forum indicating the potential of the trimmer to cause the aeroplane to exceed structural g-limits. I promise that I do know how to do this without getting close to those limits myself!

G

I think they did that in the AAIB report. Maybe they were a bit conservative in stopping at only around 2G. I did wonder why they didn’t go closer to 4G. I took that as a clue that the man doing the tests felt it prudent to stop.

[Genghis the Engineer]

One of my biggest ongoing criticisms of all AAIB reports is that they are so limited in their provision of references or access to the supporting material they use in their reports. This report is no different to many others in that regard, only providing a few lines of summary. You may be right, but in reality nobody but AAIB and their test pilot have any ability to check that.

That said, I don't think that there would be any real value in going to 4g - 2.5 would be quite adequate for the task. BUT, if their test pilot saw any real safety reason that prevented him going to 4g, which is within the envelope, that should have led to much stronger safety recommendations than are presented in the report.

G