Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1592665
Lefty wrote:I would ideally like something IPhone or S6 sized, that I could mount on the coaming - where it is in my eyeline whilst I’m looking outside.


Easy. You have a PilotAware. Just connect with a phone (any old smartphone!) and bring up the "Radar" web page.

Stick the phone somewhere convenient.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1592669
Lefty wrote:However whilst (as you know) I am a big big supporter of SD, I really do prefer to be eyes out - not eyes down, looking at my iPad looking for Traffic info.


For most effective and safest use of the system, my opinion is that Traffic info in the first instance shouldn't come from the display.

Configure an audio alert (SD provides tone alerts; PAW can do this with voice and more info) which then prompts you too look at the SD screen.

At that point the screen will have the alert banner across it for an ADS-B or Mode S-ES or PAW or (OGN)FLARM contact plus the highlighted threat; or it will have a red circle for a Mode C/ Mode S only threat.

Primarily searching for conflicting traffic, either on SD or the 'radar' screen, is IMO very much the wrong way of using it.
T67M, flybymike, gaznav and 2 others liked this
#1592677
Lefty, on a phone, the SkyDemon traffic radar display is full-screen. That's what it's designed for: to be mounted as a permanent traffic display instrument which can be part of your scan.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1592685
Tim Dawson wrote:Lefty, on a phone, the SkyDemon traffic radar display is full-screen. That's what it's designed for: to be mounted as a permanent traffic display instrument which can be part of your scan.


Are we allowed more than two implementations of SD on phones/tablets now to account for one of these as well? :D
#1592697
The unit looks nice and development seems to be coming along well. It seems the market is hotting up with the number of ways of receiving/transmitting the data available.
I would have been looking to get one but I have just brought a PAW unit, as it was a cheap way to get on the ladder while the market sorts its self out, but I can see myself getting one in the future so it is interesting to see the progress being made. :thumleft:

Lefty wrote:Thanks Paul. However whilst (as you know) I am a big big supporter of SD, I really do prefer to be eyes out - not eyes down, looking at my iPad looking for Traffic info.

Same here. Also the more stuff on the screen means it takes longer for the brain to process and hence more time looking in that direction. Having traffic/weather on the map is great but it is starting to get a bit cluttered now, especially if you only have room for a smartphone to display it all on.

For myself using the tablet is less appealing than before (for traffic data) as I have sadly had to drop SD for EasyVFR even though I prefer the SD layout (due to having a Dynon setup in the aircraft) .

I was considering what to do for traffic display and thought about having a separate phone to display the radar but it was a bit of overkill for just displaying traffic. Currently I'm working on a 'glance at' traffic source using a single small display in my eye line to avoid the need to look at the display but that is more of a fun project than something I will end up using long term (I have the Dynon 10" screen so I will probably just end up using that with audio alerts)


It will be interesting to see what comes out in the next few years for the data to brain devices. For people with cramped cockpits, who only have space for a normal smartphone display, might find it difficult.
Last edited by madmaveric on Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By T67M
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1592711
Tim Dawson wrote:Lefty, on a phone, the SkyDemon traffic radar display is full-screen. That's what it's designed for: to be mounted as a permanent traffic display instrument which can be part of your scan.


Fortunately it doesn't do this on my phone - the traffic display is either a small square on the right of the vertical profile display, or a slightly larger square still on the lower-right portion of the display. Both are fine, and I can't think of any case where I'd want anything larger since I use a single device for both navigation and traffic display, with audio alerting direct from PAw into the headset.
#1592719
I've got a similar set-up to 2Donkeys: GTN750 and GTX345 with ADS-B in and out enabled 1090 and UAT.

I went flying today, Fairoaks, down to Goodwood then around Gatwick to pass close to Redhill. I also had a home-built FlightBox running.

The FlightBox didn't see any towers at all, but it did show AHRS and traffic, as it should. Garmin Pilot (Bluetooth from GTX345) showed the Redhill tower only, nothing from Goodwood, but I couldn't get any weather information to display on Garmin Pilot or on the 750 (or in SkyDemon).

I had an avionics engineer with me and he was baffled as well. What were we doing wrong?
Image
#1592883
The Weather uplink over UAT is a great addition to in-flight information, not to diminish importance of preflight planning of course :shock:
Here is a capture we took late last year, uplinked via the UAT Transmitter at SkyDemon HQ
A bad weather day - which is great to show the weather, but only Commercial traffic around
Image

For us, this is fantastic to be able to have in flight information of weather, in addition to existing capabilities
- ADS-B (in)
- Flarm (in)
- PilotAware
- Flarm/OGN (OGN-R)
- Mode-S
- Mode-C
- Audio Spoken Messages

So I wonder when the discussion will move from trial to implementation ?

The fact is that NEXRAD weather over UAT978 is already a proven technology, and has been used extensively in the US for many years. What is new here, is setting up broadcast for the UK, but I am unclear what is to be learnt from a trial which is not known already from pre-existing data ?

The big unknowns here are not 'will the technology work', I think we all know it works. The real question is 'who will pay', and 'how much'
In the US, this is provided free of charge as part of the incentivization by the FAA to have users adopt ADS-B on UAT978, in order to not clog up the ADS-B on 1090 spectrum.

So I guess the question for Tim Dawson and Christian Ramsay (who are currently generously funding the trial at their own expense) :-

What is the vision and timescale for rollout and implementation ?

Who will pay for the infrastructure ?
- CAA, NATS, uAvionix, SkyDemon, Users (Pilots) ?

How are the ongoing costs to be managed and by whom ?
- Repeat Subscription, Usage Subscription, one-off cost, and if so how much ?

I realise this is early days, but some thought must have gone into this in advance, regarding
- the costs of the initial outlay - licensing of (978Mhz) spectrum from Ofcom
- transmission equipment, ongoing recurring cost of management and maintenance.
So if there is a figure for this known amount, then I guess a breakdown can be calculated on a potential cost to the Pilot user base and/or commercial enterprise and/or Government.

Finally, if their were to be an end user license cost, how would the management access rights be controlled?
would the data be encrypted to stop unauthorized usage of the data ?
If so how would these access rights be incorporated into 3rd party receivers and navigation tools, as the data is currently broadcast free-to-air ?

Thx
Lee
Ian Melville, SimplySteeze, 2Donkeys and 2 others liked this
#1592977
Who will pay?

1. How about £5 from every licensed GA pilot - £85k from ~17,000 pilots (2016 figures https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Data_and_analysis/Datasets/Licence_holders_by_age_and_sex_by_year/Pilot%20licence%20holders%20by%20age%20and%20sex%202016.pdf)

2. How about the regulators and ATC providers matching that. £85k from CAA and £85k from NATS.

3. How about the GA Insurers matching that again - goodness knows what they pay out each year for accidents in bad weather or mid airs. £85k.

4. How about a bit of crowd-funding on top?

5. How about the LAA, AOPA, BMAA, BGA, etc... all chipping in?

6. How about the larger airfields providing sites for the antenna and equipment for free?

I would think you could quite easily raise £0.5M that would be a big step forward in rolling this out across the UK.

Thoughts?

Gaz
2Donkeys, leemoore1966 liked this
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By flybymike
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1592988
Well I suppose the CAA and NATS could contribute and then meet the costs by reclaiming from us pilots in increased fees.
I suppose the insurers could contribute and then meet the costs by increased premiums.
And
I suppose the LAA, AOPA, BMAA, and BGA could contribute and then meet the costs by increased subscriptions.
leemoore1966 liked this
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