Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:04 pm
#1591360
I've had a wacky idea - tell me where the flaws are in it?
Okay, the UK will be leaving the EU. It seems highly likely that arrangements will be put in place that nonetheless keep the UK within EASA, but with some weakened arrangements. This last may or may not involve us being on the top ruling council (probably not), will almost certainly involve continued representation on various committees, and will almost certainly involve the CAA - as at present, acting as a competent and authorised agency for EASA, doing some stuff for EASA, and feeding some other stuff onto mainland Europe to be done there. What it almost certainly won't involve is the present legal mandate that all EU states MUST be compliant with EASA on anything outside of Annex II: if EASA's use is to be mandated that will either be through an an act of parliament or a lower legal piece of rulemaking by the CAA. Bar inevitably bickering, that's broadly where we'll be.
Now, an implication of that is that whilst we will be choosing to use EASA as our authority, it will be in Westminster & Gatwick's joint gift to say that we can use other mechanisms than EASA for either airworthiness or licencing. Clearly we already do to some extent - many of us have UK licences, and some of those go outside of Annex II (anybody with a full UK PPL or CPL for example), and there are aeroplanes of all sizes that are still in Annex II for sound reasons. But maintaining a domestic UK system has been a bit of a fiction as with minor tinkering it's just been the EASA system re-badged.
So far, so clear(ish). Now here's where my thinking is getting a bit radical - what if the UK was to negotiate alongside this an optional mechanism for convergence with the FAA. So, basically if somebody wants to operate their aircraft in the UK-FAA space, rather than UK-EASA, they have that privilege. I think that cherry picking between FAA and EASA systems for airworthiness is going to be unworkable, so you basically would have to make a transfer, but then with the CAA acting as an agent of the FAA. This would involve a fair bit of treaty-level paperwork, but the same technical skills at CAA as at present, and it shouldn't be all that hard to achieve. Existing licenced engineers and the like could presumably just be asked to sit a straightforward law exam to become double qualified.
I can't see any reason why we can't just allow both systems to award of pilots licences in the UK as well, and you can fly either system aeroplane on either system pilots licence. After all both are fully ICAO compliant licences, and at-least at PPL level it's just paperwork (and not much of that) to fly an N-reg on a British issued licence, and vice-versa.
What's the downside? The regulations will become even messier than they are already, and the question "is this aeroplane on FAA rules or EASA rules" will become a common one that we'd all get deeply irritated about, working out the matching for UK professional licence holders with EASAland qualifications who want to go and work in the USA, and vice-versa. Somebody would need to pay for an enlargement and re-skilling of the CAA.
What's the upside? - we can import aeroplanes from the USA much more readily (I quite fancy one of those tailwheel AA1s myself), and conversely the UK industry will have the ability to build aeroplanes for direct export to the USA with no recertification, but all the certification work done at home. New pilots could be trained to a double syllabus and effectively hold both FAA and EASA licences, which would be very good for the flight training industry. We can get FAA IRs ! We can use FAA DERs for mods, and qualify them at home creating an export market to the USA for British skills.
What would the big problems be that need to be solved? - mechanisms for dual qualification at every level, can we bring US experimental aeroplanes here? (I suspect that might be a step too far for many in authority - so convergence might need to be at the ICAO-compliant / CofA aeroplanes level only, at least initially).
I can see plenty of problems to be solved, but I'm not sure I see any profound show-stoppers here, beyond a massive question of political will? Anybody else? Am I talking rubbish (which is entirely possible, so please just say so politely).
There is a "risk" that after a few years the EASA system just loses out on the arms race and pretty much everything in the UK bar professional / manufacturing activities for export to Europe would be entirely now on the FAA system. I can't however really see anybody shedding tears over that (and bear in mind that Boeing do dual FAA/EASA certification already, so it's hardly a new thing).
G
Okay, the UK will be leaving the EU. It seems highly likely that arrangements will be put in place that nonetheless keep the UK within EASA, but with some weakened arrangements. This last may or may not involve us being on the top ruling council (probably not), will almost certainly involve continued representation on various committees, and will almost certainly involve the CAA - as at present, acting as a competent and authorised agency for EASA, doing some stuff for EASA, and feeding some other stuff onto mainland Europe to be done there. What it almost certainly won't involve is the present legal mandate that all EU states MUST be compliant with EASA on anything outside of Annex II: if EASA's use is to be mandated that will either be through an an act of parliament or a lower legal piece of rulemaking by the CAA. Bar inevitably bickering, that's broadly where we'll be.
Now, an implication of that is that whilst we will be choosing to use EASA as our authority, it will be in Westminster & Gatwick's joint gift to say that we can use other mechanisms than EASA for either airworthiness or licencing. Clearly we already do to some extent - many of us have UK licences, and some of those go outside of Annex II (anybody with a full UK PPL or CPL for example), and there are aeroplanes of all sizes that are still in Annex II for sound reasons. But maintaining a domestic UK system has been a bit of a fiction as with minor tinkering it's just been the EASA system re-badged.
So far, so clear(ish). Now here's where my thinking is getting a bit radical - what if the UK was to negotiate alongside this an optional mechanism for convergence with the FAA. So, basically if somebody wants to operate their aircraft in the UK-FAA space, rather than UK-EASA, they have that privilege. I think that cherry picking between FAA and EASA systems for airworthiness is going to be unworkable, so you basically would have to make a transfer, but then with the CAA acting as an agent of the FAA. This would involve a fair bit of treaty-level paperwork, but the same technical skills at CAA as at present, and it shouldn't be all that hard to achieve. Existing licenced engineers and the like could presumably just be asked to sit a straightforward law exam to become double qualified.
I can't see any reason why we can't just allow both systems to award of pilots licences in the UK as well, and you can fly either system aeroplane on either system pilots licence. After all both are fully ICAO compliant licences, and at-least at PPL level it's just paperwork (and not much of that) to fly an N-reg on a British issued licence, and vice-versa.
What's the downside? The regulations will become even messier than they are already, and the question "is this aeroplane on FAA rules or EASA rules" will become a common one that we'd all get deeply irritated about, working out the matching for UK professional licence holders with EASAland qualifications who want to go and work in the USA, and vice-versa. Somebody would need to pay for an enlargement and re-skilling of the CAA.
What's the upside? - we can import aeroplanes from the USA much more readily (I quite fancy one of those tailwheel AA1s myself), and conversely the UK industry will have the ability to build aeroplanes for direct export to the USA with no recertification, but all the certification work done at home. New pilots could be trained to a double syllabus and effectively hold both FAA and EASA licences, which would be very good for the flight training industry. We can get FAA IRs ! We can use FAA DERs for mods, and qualify them at home creating an export market to the USA for British skills.
What would the big problems be that need to be solved? - mechanisms for dual qualification at every level, can we bring US experimental aeroplanes here? (I suspect that might be a step too far for many in authority - so convergence might need to be at the ICAO-compliant / CofA aeroplanes level only, at least initially).
I can see plenty of problems to be solved, but I'm not sure I see any profound show-stoppers here, beyond a massive question of political will? Anybody else? Am I talking rubbish (which is entirely possible, so please just say so politely).
There is a "risk" that after a few years the EASA system just loses out on the arms race and pretty much everything in the UK bar professional / manufacturing activities for export to Europe would be entirely now on the FAA system. I can't however really see anybody shedding tears over that (and bear in mind that Boeing do dual FAA/EASA certification already, so it's hardly a new thing).
G
I am Spartacus, and so is my co-pilot.
FLYER Club Member
I'm sure MichaelP would be ready to comment ..