[Flintstone]

You do know Biggin tried to get me sacked for that?

Oh so it was nothing to do with you being caught with his missus and your trousers round your ankles that upset him ?

No, that was Nayland.

[defcribed]

I suppose I'd better make an effort to get Biggin in the logbook sooner rather than later.

Same old discussion with respect to access to CAT.

If ROCAS due controller workload is being used with any regularity then it means the operator of the airspace isn't employing enough controllers to meet the obligations that they should have imposed upon them as a result of being granted CAS.

Of course controllers need the ROCAS tool, it's essential. I wouldn't suggest otherwise for a minute. But if it becomes the usual way of doing business then something isn't right.

I don't know to what extent the CAA imposes requirements for ATC handling of transits when it grants CAS, but the present situation suggests to me that a reassurance from the operator that transits will be granted is probably enough. I would prefer to see some sort of requirement to provide a definite and measurable over-capacity of controllers to deal with transits. In effect saying to the operator: "You wanted this CAS, now you make absolutely sure that people have access to it. I'm afraid that it will cost you - you won't be able to employ the bare minimum of controllers required to handle your own traffic."

The present muddle is an inevitability of a privatised system.

[hatzflyer]

The only BIG inn is their ego
Didn't have this problem in the early 40's

[marioair]

As the OP not sure why the thread has descended into a discussion about class D.
Yes that may be be in Biggins medium term plan.
But this is simply about the commercial incentives (or lack of) for Biggin to accommodate GA at their airport. My understanding is that the airport is leased to BHL by Bromley council. Hence if this isn’t a open and closed case for the GA lobby groups go hey involved I’m not sure what is?

[Bob Upanddown]

One argument being trotted out by airports nowadays is the one that a little puddle-jumper doing solo student circuits could then go off the runway or worse and that could close the airport for an hour at the cost of £x,000’s in lost landing fees as numerous biz-jets / would have to divert elsewhere.

So Biggin are following the Farnborough model (or Bristol model, or.....take your pick) and making landing fees for small aircraft a stupid amount of money.

[marioair]

Regulation, regulation, regulation.

We should mandate that as Part of the license an AD should have a GA strategy published and reviewed. The insurance point can’t be correct can it?

I do accept that if there’s direct loss for a GA circuit taking up a slot that would otherwise have been used by CAT or requiring more ATC staff then this cost is reflected in landing fees. What I don’t accept is that we allow an approach of “it’s just easier to get rid of GA” which is promoted by the lack of national strategy for GA.

[James Chan]

a little puddle-jumper doing solo student circuits could then go off the runway

It's a valid concern but over-hyped. Any big aircraft could also have the same problem. And the larger the aircraft, it'll take even longer to clear things up.

Light planes are generally easy to move aside quickly and continue.

[BlackheathBloke]

One argument being trotted out by airports nowadays is the one that a little puddle-jumper doing solo student circuits could then go off the runway or worse and that could close the airport for an hour at the cost of £x,000’s in lost landing fees as numerous biz-jets / would have to divert elsewhere.

I've seen this at Jersey before (think it was a puncture) with a PA28 from JAC. the little blue van trundled out, wheel changed and aircraft off of the runway in just over 10 mins. Didn't seem to be a huge event for the CAT holding before approach.

[Bob Upanddown]

. What I don’t accept is that we allow an approach of “it’s just easier to get rid of GA” which is promoted by the lack of national strategy for GA.

There is a lack of national strategy in everything (and Jeremy Corbin will put that right by re-nationalising everything).

A National Strategy to be followed by all the privately owned airfields and airports surely could only be enforced by regulations??

Light GA lacks a strong voice to put across the business case for Light GA at airports. Most Light GA also lacks the cash to spend on landing and handling fees at airport (or so it seems from from this forum) so there goes the business case for light GA.

[avtur3]

a little puddle-jumper doing solo student circuits could then go off the runway

It's a valid concern but over-hyped. Any big aircraft could also have the same problem. And the larger the aircraft, it'll take even longer to clear things up.

Light planes are generally easy to move aside quickly and continue.

Embraer 145 at Bristol 22nd December, runway closed for 12 hours.

[kanga]

a little puddle-jumper doing solo student circuits could then go off the runway

...

Embraer 145 at Bristol 22nd December, runway closed for 12 hours.

50-seat CAT, not GA. Hardly a 'puddle-jumper', and presumably a corporate version would be very welcome at Biggin ..

[avtur3]

...

Embraer 145 at Bristol 22nd December, runway closed for 12 hours.

50-seat CAT, not GA. Hardly a 'puddle-jumper', and presumably a corporate version would be very welcome at Biggin ..

You appear to have edited out the comment to which my reply was referring

i.e. quote James Chan ... "It's a valid concern but over-hyped. Any big aircraft could also have the same problem. And the larger the aircraft, it'll take even longer to clear things up."

[JonathanB]

Some people here seem to be under the misapprehension that adding another controller to a position would help to alleviate capacity issues, but this simply isn't the case. You can't just split sectors down to smaller and smaller pieces or you suddenly increase the complexity of co-ordinating between tiny sectors in which aircraft are only inside for a short period. This would also increase R/T loading as frequency changes are happening more regularly. There is a balancing act here between sector size, capacity and workload. I would suggest it's not a simple formula.

[kanga]

..


You appear to have edited out the comment to which my reply was referring

i.e. quote James Chan ... "It's a valid concern but over-hyped. Any big aircraft could also have the same problem. And the larger the aircraft, it'll take even longer to clear things up."

profuse apologies, I had not noted that referenced detail

[loopylune]

Has anyone thought of copying this letter to the APPG on light Aviation.
Its obvious they don't want GA as they now have bigger fish to fry, but wait we have been good enough in the past.
With airfields under threat where do we go Calais?
Aviation is appreciated in France.
Its a slow downward spiral.