[Lefty]

(Isn’t he supposed to be at work at this time of the day)?

Smartphones and boring meetings make a great combination.

Especially when you are getting paid for it !

[Gertie]

A lesson hard learned, is one well learned. Since then I’ve always been a big fan of Altimeters and knowing the SSA.

Hmm. I'm wondering whether this might be part of the answer to something that puzzled me, which was why the instructor seemed very concerned and took control from me in cloud when all our pressure instruments started playing up (water in the static line was my eventual guess as to the cause of the instrument behaviour).

[mick w]

I have done dozens of climbs in Cu Nims of between one & ten thousand ft. with nothing more than a Turn & Bank ASI & Vario .
Oh how I would have loved to have had SkyDemon , track up of course !!.

[UpThere]

Lined up on Booker’s runway 24, and I put the Hood on (Before takeoff) - and did the takeoff fully under the hood using the DI

I’m sitting there thinking “this is easy, I’ve got this sussed” when the instructor tells me I can take to hood off - and then tell him which instrument is the most important.

When I looked up, I found that we were at approx 50ft agl, flying up a valley that closed in a few hundred yards ahead.

Having experienced an EFATO, the lesson I would have learned was not to use that instructor again!

[Maxthelion]

I’ll ask my favourite question.
If you find yourself in unexpected IMC - what is absolutely the most important instrument in your aircraft?
This is the instrument without which, you will almost certainly die.

You have a great story that you closed this quiz with, but I would say that you would have been a virtual smoking hole in the ground far earlier without an AI or a turn & slip. I'm not saying an altimiter isn't important, just that it's lower down the list of priorities than instruments that can help you tell which way is up.

If I were in IMC and on a partial panel, I would be focussing on staying right side up. I would then be calling up D&D and asking for their assistance, and if my altimeter had failed then they could of course tell me how high I was assuming my transponder hadn't also failed. They would also be able to navigate for me, so lightening my load. I wouldn't be able to ask them which way was up.

Although I'm not IMC rated, I do come at this from the standpoint of a genuine emergency where I got myself lost and night closed in and my instrument lights all failed. I had no instruments at all on a dark night and made a PAN call to D&D. They took the load off by navigating for me (left a bit, right a bit, etc) and it was only because I was able to know which wasy was up from street lights that I didn't become a smoking hole in the ground. I learned about flying from that.

[johnm]

With an aircraft in trim you need something to tell you if you are turning and something to tell you if you are climbing or descending. Without both you could find yourself in serious trouble.

I have flown in solid IMC with a failed AI relying on turn co-ordinator, altimeter and DI and I can tell you that it's relatively easy to do but very hard work and needs a very high level of concentration.

It's wise to know which instrument drives your autopilot too

[Paul_Sengupta]

You have a great story that you closed this quiz with, but I would say that you would have been a virtual smoking hole in the ground without an AI or a turn & slip. I'm not saying an altimiter isn't important, just that it's lower down the list of priorities than instruments that can help you tell which way is up.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. I was going to type this out in response but had to go out last night, so I'll just give this a +1!

[Dave Phillips]

With an aircraft in trim you need something to tell you if you are turning and something to tell you if you are climbing or descending. Without both you could find yourself in serious trouble.

I have flown in solid IMC with a failed AI relying on turn co-ordinator, altimeter and DI and I can tell you that it's relatively easy to do but very hard work and needs a very high level of concentration.

It's wise to know which instrument drives your autopilot too

Power + Attitude = Performance. If you rearrange that one a bit, set cruise power and fly attitude by the ASI. If the ASI is moving, you're not S&L.

There are also some good rules of thumb. For example, many light GA aircraft will descend at a rate of about 100FPM for every 100rpm you take off the throttle.

[Lockhaven]

The answer is at the end of this short, but true story.

Training for my IMC Rating at Booker c 1978.

During the pre-brief the instructor asked me this question. I rationalise about the primary and secondary data you can get from the AI, T&S, DI, ASI etc. Instructor promptly clips me round the back of my head and tells me I know nothing - and he will teach me in the air.

Lined up on Booker’s runway 24, and I put the Hood on (Before takeoff) - and did the takeoff fully under the hood using the DI, (as this instructor insisted on).

We spend 30 minutes flying around under the hood, with the instructor giving me “ATC style” instructions whilst gradually covering up all the instruments in turn.

I’m sitting there thinking “this is easy, I’ve got this sussed” when the instructor tells me I can take to hood off - and then tell him which instrument is the most important.

When I looked up, I found that we were at approx 50ft agl, flying up a valley that closed in a few hundred yards ahead. (Near Chinoor and the Stokenchurch mast)
I simultaneously applied full power, pulled back into a steep climb and shouted .........
“Altimeter George - Altimeter !”

A lesson hard learned, is one well learned. Since then I’ve always been a big fan of Altimeters and knowing the SSA.

Perhaps quite relevant after last week’s tragedy at Brecon Hill.

So Graham B was the only one to guess the right answer. (Isn’t he supposed to be at work at this time of the day)?

A nice story and lesson learnt, however the altimeter alone is not going to save you from a smoking hole in the ground if you have no means of keeping the right way up in cloud.

The most basic important instrument being in cloud is a turn & slip, after that would be the Altimeter, ASI and E2B compass in whatever order you like, there after the list of gyro instruments and gadgets.

I can absolutely 100% guarantee in cloud with a little bit of turbulance you wouldn't remain the right way up for more than 60 seconds without some means of determining wings level.

And I would be more than happy to take you into cloud without you being able to see an instrument that determines wings level and ask you to turn onto heading with a small climb or descent and see how long it takes before you are in spiral dive or inverted from your own control inputs.

Edit: spelling

[BillBravo]

Interesting discussions and accounts but if you are a PPL without a lot of IF experience and you have flown VFR into IMC for real (not under the hood with an instructor) and you were surrounded by the white stuff and survived then you will know the following:

1) The AI saved your life by helping to keep the wings level and/or turn gently in control

2) The most difficult thing was to believe the AI and your eyes and fight the urge to respond to the 'seat-of-the-pants' feelings that makes you think that you are banked when in fact you are flying S&L or vice-versa

3) There is no time to fiddle with GPS etc other than perhaps glance at the MEF. Even turning your head momentarily away from the AI to change the squawk or the frequency would probably lead to loss of control in seconds.

It is a bit of a cliché but the IMC -the IR(R) now- did save my life one December evening 5 years ago. I will write the (long) story in the 'It happened to me' section one day!

[flyingeeza]

Talk about limited panel...
There was a case in 2014 where a loose formation of two Giles G-202 aerobatic aircraft encountered IMC. One pilot decided to take a different route home when the other pilot lost sight of him.
The surviving one of the two had no alternative but attempt a climb up through solid cloud using only his ASI, compass and slip ball! See photo of his panel below! He also had no idea that he would need to climb through 9000 feet of cloud before breaking out on top!!

His mate's radio went silent a short time later.

Excerpt below (re the surviving pilot) from the accident report:
http://www.caa.co.za/Accidents%20and%20Incidents%20Reports/9281.pdf

"After a few minutes, he got trapped in a large valley with low clouds and power lines on the ridge he intended to cross. He then decided to do a level 360° turn in order to decide his next course of action as dark clouds ahead were lowering quickly. At that stage the pilot could not see any level ground below where he could try to do a precautionary landing. The rain also came down so heavily that he could not see ahead of him, apart from about 45° left and right of the nose.

At this stage, the pilot realised that his only alternative was to
level the wings and pull up into a climb-straight-ahead and hope to break out on top of these clouds quickly. The pilot further stated that he was fully aware of the
dangers of spatial disorientation in flying in instrument metrological conditions (IMC) on a very limited panel in an aerobatic aircraft with a high roll and pitch rate. He further stated that he applied his full concentration to ensure the ball in the slip gauge was centred, that he kept the compass steady, and maintained a steady climb speed of 80 miles an hour."

[MichaelP]

Frightening

[Lockhaven]

"flyingeeza"]Talk about limited panel...
There was a case in 2014 where a loose formation of two Giles G-202 aerobatic aircraft encountered IMC. One pilot decided to take a different route home when the other pilot lost sight of him.
The surviving one of the two had no alternative but attempt a climb up through solid cloud using only his ASI, compass and slip ball! See photo of his panel below! He also had no idea that he would need to climb through 9000 feet of cloud before breaking out on top!!

His mate's radio went silent a short time later.

Excerpt below (re the surviving pilot) from the accident report:
http://www.caa.co.za/Accidents%20and%20Incidents%20Reports/9281.pdf

"After a few minutes, he got trapped in a large valley with low clouds and power lines on the ridge he intended to cross. He then decided to do a level 360° turn in order to decide his next course of action as dark clouds ahead were lowering quickly. At that stage the pilot could not see any level ground below where he could try to do a precautionary landing. The rain also came down so heavily that he could not see ahead of him, apart from about 45° left and right of the nose.

At this stage, the pilot realised that his only alternative was to
level the wings and pull up into a climb-straight-ahead and hope to break out on top of these clouds quickly. The pilot further stated that he was fully aware of the
dangers of spatial disorientation in flying in instrument metrological conditions (IMC) on a very limited panel in an aerobatic aircraft with a high roll and pitch rate. He further stated that he applied his full concentration to ensure the ball in the slip gauge was centred, that he kept the compass steady, and maintained a steady climb speed of 80 miles an hour."

And there by the grace of God he had a slip ball and knew how to use it that saved him.

It would interesting to have more detail. I am guessing being an aerobatic pilot he knew the stick position for wings level, this enabled him to do his straight ahead climb in IMC by keeping the stick neutral and making very small rudder inputs to keep a constant heading on the compass, no change in heading = wings level, without that slip ball he would have been another statistic.

[flyingeeza]

And there by the grace of God he had a slip ball and knew how to use it that saved him.

It would interesting to have more detail. I am guessing being an aerobatic pilot he knew the stick position for wings level, this enabled him to do his straight ahead climb in IMC by keeping the stick neutral and making very small rudder inputs to keep a constant heading on the compass, no change in heading = wings level, without that slip ball he would have been another statistic.

Indeed. He is also a pilot by profession and at the time of the incident had logged no less than 23,400 hours. He wrote a very frank and honest account of his long ascent through the cloud, and his sense of dread about the fate of his silent wingman.

He broke out on top at 10500 feet and fortunately had enough fuel to fly away to a safe landing.

I'll do some searching for his story and post it.

[flyingeeza]

If you can tolerate the raw South African accent, here's a CAA video interview with the surviving 23,400 hour ALTP agonisingly reliving his lucky escape and his mate's fatal decision. Awkward viewing indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=ggEsjoXsEWY