[David Wood]

Here’s a little poser for bored aviators recuperating from Christmas and steeling themselves for New Year. A pilot (Pilot A) flies his aeroplane from his home base to a south coast aerodrome for maintenance. He has agreed with another pilot (Pilot B) that the latter will hire a club aeroplane and follow in order to pick him up and fly them both home. It’s a nice day in good VFR and the trip each way is about 40 minutes.

With the pick-up complete, the two fly home again together. By agreement, Pilot B is PIC for the whole return flight and Pilot A is merely his passenger in the right hand seat. Nonetheless, they are both aware of a steep authority gradient. Pilot B is a low-hours pilot with a relatively recently-issued PPL. Pilot A is an experienced FI, but does not work for the club from which Pilot B hired the aeroplane. To steepen the gradient further, Pilot A instructed Pilot B during his PPL course some years previously.

In order to allow Pilot B to do his job as PIC, Pilot A tries to flatten the authority gradient by making no comments on Pilot B’s flying, which in any case is perfectly reasonable. They do however discuss the fact that Pilot B is the PIC and is solely responsible for flying the aeroplane. Pilot B flies competently all the way back to their home base.

Upon arrival Pilot B sets up the approach to land. There is a stiff cross wind but Pilot A considers that handling it lies well within Pilot B’s capabilities. Pilot A stifles any urge to make any comment as Pilot B flies the approach. He certainly does not offer to take over since to do so would imply a lack of confidence in Pilot B’s flying.

The hard runway is more than adequate in length but the cross wind is making it tricky. The approach is stable but Pilot B crosses the threshold rather fast and flares slightly hard, and a little late. The aeroplane touches down hard and bounces high. Rather than going around, or indeed holding the attitude and adding some power to take the sting out of the bounce, Pilot B pushes the nose down and the aeroplane descends for a second touch-down in a marked nose-low attitude. In Pilot A's opinion a potentially hard landing looks imminent, with a high probability that the nose-wheel may be driven up through the engine.

You are Pilot A and you have half-a-second to think.
What do you do?
Why might you hesitate?
What might the legal implications be if you do take control?
What might they be if you don’t?
In either event, how might Pilot A discuss the matter with Pilot B afterwards?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Are you getting ready to become a CRMI David?

You are Pilot A and you have half-a-second to think.
What do you do?

Whilst I would be a passenger interfering with the controls, I think I'd apply a small pull on the yoke, then immediately the nosewheel is not stoofed up into the engine, let go and issue pilot B with an immediate verbal grovelling apology for interfering with his flying.

Why might you hesitate?

Not my aeroplane.

What might the legal implications be if you do take control?
What might they be if you don’t?

Difficult. One law says that B is the Captain and A shouldn't touch the controls unless authorised. Another law says that A has a degree of duty of care to prevent an accident when he reasonably could have done.

In either event, how might Pilot A discuss the matter with Pilot B afterwards?

"Mate, I'm really sorry, it was your aeroplane, and I shouldn't have touched the controls. It just suddenly seemed that you might be about to damage the aeroplane and the instructor in me took over. I really should have left it".

And then take absolutely any response from B politely and calmly. If B has good personal CRM they will probably say something like "it's okay, and thanks - I'd screwed up, and you saved the day. " If they are unhappy, take it on the chin - as B was the Captain.

Alternately, if A kept his hands away from the controls and the aeroplane wasn't broken...

"Do you mind if I offer a thought or two on your flying, just as a friend who happens to be an instructor who was sat there".

The last I'll certainly admit to having done once or twice flying with friends. Those people are all still friends I'm glad to say.

G

[Ben K]

I'd keep my hands off the controls; but the temptation to apply back pressure would be there. Since A is just a passenger in every sense (albeit a very experienced one) suddenly taking control without notice (given the time constraint) is liable to lead to confusion, which may well make the situation much worse.
Since B is, by all accounts, competent and has been told A will not interfere, he/she will be expecting A not to touch anything. Which could lead to some interesting joint inputs.

Unfortunately not doing anything may lead to a broken aeroplane!

I'd probably say "go around!" Taking control unexpectedly, I think, could lead to a worse outcome; which could leave A in a very sticky situation. But I'd not do nothing at all; this could also lead to some interesting questions later.

The discussion later would depend on how things turned out.... but along the lines of "You know, I really wouldn't have minded if we'd tried that one again..." with a reassuring smile, or so on.

How did it turn out?

[tomshep]

I'd have been shouting "Go Round" If I thought I was going to get hurt. If the touchdown was bad, I would hope that the words would have actuated the go round switch in my pilot's brain. If not, It isn't my aeroplane. Brace for impact.

[Paul_Sengupta]

I've been in the situation a couple of times but I'm not an instructor, though luckily the decisions all worked out ok without me having to "interfere".

Once, at Cardiff, I was in the right hand seat. After the first hard bounce, the pilot in the left hand seat suddenly threw her hands up in the air and quickly shouted, "You have control!!" I levelled the aeroplane out, put on a little throttle and passed back control for her to have another go (long runway!). She chose to go around. No argument there.

Another time I was with another friend in the initial bit of that scenario, where I just gently suggested, "You might want to consider flaring sometime about now...." <Bang>, we bounced, and my friend chose to go around, so again, no interference, no argument.

I believe in the US, the courts have decided that whatever the agreement between those in the front of the aeroplane, ultimately the buck stops with whoever has the highest qualification. But then they have a weird situation where both can be P1 over there. In the UK I believe it's the opposite, whoever has been deemed to be PIC carries the responsibility.

I think in the scenario above, I'd do as has been suggested, gently nudge the controls and say sorry afterwards.

I may have been able to prevent an accident once in such a landing situation if it hadn't been for the JAA 90 day rule. I once brought the PA28 shareoplane back to Cardiff and handed it over to another member. Unknown to me he hadn't flown for 9 months. Anyway, on landing he managed to burst the nosewheel tyre and ground the prop.

I've had a (pilot/instructor) passenger shout "go around!" at me when he spotted deer running onto the runway.

[insink]

I am a Gliding instructor, and it was made very clear that even when technically not instructing, if i'm unhappy I MUST take over if there is time, then a bit of advice but if not then "I have...."
I cant see that the situation would be any different in power, if i was pilot B i'd be pleased someone had prevented me from (further) damaging the aircraft.
isnt that what crm is all about?

[insink]

I am a Gliding instructor, and it was made very clear during our training that even when technically not instructing, if i'm unhappy I MUST take over if there is time, then a bit of advice but if not then "I have...."
I cant see that the situation would be any different in power, if i was pilot B i'd be pleased someone had prevented me from (further) damaging the aircraft.
isnt that what crm is all about?

[insink]

I am a Gliding instructor, and it was made very clear during our training that even when technically not instructing, if i'm unhappy I MUST take over, if there is time, then a bit of advice but if not then "I have...."
I cant see that the situation would be any different in power, if i was pilot B i'd be pleased someone had prevented me from (further) damaging the aircraft.
isnt that what crm is all about?

[insink]

sorry, must learn how to edit!!!!

[Ben K]

Without actually being there (and a split second decision!) it's hard to know exactly what A would do .

But how do you know Pilot B (who, after all, is competent, trusted and has flown fine) isn't about to rescue the aircraft by doing exactly what needs doing? You'll then have two pilots on the controls at the same time, without one knowing the other is, at low level, both pulling back on the stick...then both correcting, etc....

[neaton]

sorry, must learn how to edit!!!!

<Snatches keyboard> I have!

[FlarePath]

if i'm unhappy I MUST take over if there is time,

That depends on how unhappy you might be, and at what phase of the flight you may get twitchy , do you advise anyone you fly with before leaving the ground that you will forcebly take over if you are "unhappy" if yes, you wouldn't be flying with me I'm afraid.

But, back to the OP If I was "Pilot A" then I may well drop a subtle hint quickly, that another course of action might be better. ONLY if I though I was in serious danger would physical action take place and I would sort it out with plod on the ground if legalitie's were involved.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Nor me.

Somebody who did something to save the aircraft when I've screwed up will be having a robust conversation then my thanks for correcting my screw up. We'd still be having the conversation on the basis that this was my screw up to make.

Anybody who gets in as a passenger and states that they think there is any circumstance where they actually have a right to take control of the aircraft, is not getting in the aeroplane.

I do of course tell everybody who ever sits next to me in an aeroplane that if they see anything that makes them unhappy and I don't seem to be aware of and/or addressing, they should tell me immediately. But there's a big difference between that, or even an unsolicited but competent nudge to the controls, and taking command.

G

[FlarePath]

Just a thought, does "interfering" with the controls of a glider carry the same potential legal problems as a powered aircraft with a "Licenced" pilot.?

[stickandrudderman]

I have been in the right seat ( I am not an instructor) and witnessed my P1 make two very poor approaches during which I suggested we go away and try again. On the third attemp it looked to me like we were going to have a very heavy landing so at the last minute I said, “I have control” and made the third go around. During the downwind leg I apologised to my
P1 and told him that I should not have done that. He accepted my apology, landed successfully at the 4th attempt and we still remain on good terms.