Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1581947
I have long been a Dambuster afficionado but only recently learned that Hopgood lost an engine 20 minutes before reaching the Mohne but as the aircraft continued to fly he decided to carry on and did his bomb run, despite being injured. incredible! I agree he deserved the VC.
#1585474
Whiffletree: I’ve only just seen your post on this subject – apologies for not keeping up! And thanks for your concurrence to my assertation.

To provide others with the background to Whiffletree’s and my statement that Hopgood’s is deserving of the award of a (posthumous) VC, readers may find the following ‘potted’ version of events interesting and, indeed, inspirational:

One of the many facts of the Dambuster's mission not generally known (as its not covered in The Film of the Same Name) is that Flt Lt John Hopgood DFC, (M – Mother), #2 in the attack on the Möhne and shot down during his attack run, had suffered significant damage on the very low-level transit to the target.
The port outer engine was hit and feathered, the front gunner (Gregory) was probably killed in this early engagement as nothing more was heard from him for the rest of the mission. The wireless operator (Minchin) reported being ‘hit in the leg’; it was actually nearly severed, but that was not known about until sometime later when the rear gunner (Burcher) found him crawling up the fuselage and assisted him to abandon the aircraft. During that time Minchin never uttered any complaint.

Burcher, too, had been hit in the groin and stomach, which must have stung just a wee bit. Hopgood himself was badly hit in the head – one report says by a 20mm round - and continued to fly with the Engineer (Brennan) holding a pocket handkerchief to the wound in an effort to staunch the serious blood loss. Remember these guys were at a max height of about 100' and flying UNDER electricity cables – in the dark.

Despite these serious setbacks and wounds, Hopgood continued to the target, with Gibson and Martin, without a murmur and attacked unhesitatingly when ordered to do so.

On only 3 engines, with no suppressive fire from the front turret, he flew an accurate attack into the now thoroughly alerted defences and paid the price of being '2nd in'. The aircraft was badly hit in the port wing again and the other engine on that side also put out of action; the petrol tanks were hit, ruptured, and burst into flames. However, even then, Hopgood’s heroism knew no bounds and he remained in control of a now blazing, fully asymmetric, aircraft while he tried to gain height and encouraging his crew to abandon the mortally hit Lancaster.

Due to Hopgood’s gallant efforts, 3 of his crew DID get out, although the seriously injured Minchin did not survive the very low-level abandonment despite the equally gallant efforts of Burcher; if you see pictures of the inside the Lanc's fuselage, imagine crawling along the fuselage with your leg hanging off, especially if you had to negotiate the infamous main spar from the wireless operator’s position to the rear escape door.

Bomb aimer Fraser and rear gunner Burcher did get away with it, Burcher with a broken back after hitting the tailplane, having previously bailed out Minchin through the side door. They both only survived because they had the presence of mind to pull their ‘chutes INSIDE the aircraft and feed the canopy into the slipstream and be dragged out by it.

Finally, Dave Shannon recalled during the gut-tightening time between kitting out and getting airborne, sharing a cigarette with Hopgood ‘round the back of the hangar’, where Hopgood confessed that he didn’t think that he would return; he’d reasoned that being number 2 ‘in’ was the poisoned chalice as the element of surprise would have gone and the defences would not have been degraded to any degree yet. And so it proved; but he went anyway. Heroism personified IMHO.
Jonzarno, Paultheparaglider, Dave W and 9 others liked this
#1585539
Inspiring story, indeed, Ophelia.

I think it is very easy to forget the extreme bravery of these people. They just got on with the job in a way that people of my generation and younger are probably totally unable to comprehend.

Johnny Johnson was on BBC Breakfast and the News a few days ago. He was talking with a young lady RAF pilot, and I was taken by what I thought was the extremely good advice he gave to her. He suggested that whatever you choose to do in life, you should do it to the very best of your ability because that is the best route to happiness.

Time moves on, and modern day problems seem minor by comparison. But, it serves us all well to take stories like your one above and to think long and hard about them. And then to ask what we can do for our modern day society to honour and deserve those sacrifices.
Aerials, Ophelia Gently, GeorgeJLA and 1 others liked this
#1591527
I can highly recommend an RAF expansion period Officers Mess as a wedding venue

Ours was Duxford

Rob P
By matspart3
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1591559
joe-fbs wrote:Tomorrow matspart3 and I will be at Thornbury Castle. Any other forumites? I’m meeting a bunch of non-forum mates in The Anchor at 1400.


Sadly, I couldn’t get a ticket for today (and I did even try to use the ‘do you know who I am?’ line :D ) but I gather there’s another date being planned too.

I’ve heard Johnny speak about the raid previously, including over a scotch in his retirement flat surrounded by his Dambusters memorabilia. It is difficult to put into words what a privilege it is to share this with someone who can talk about it in the first person.
By TimE
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1591698
Ophelia, thank you for that. There is much more detail about John Hopgoods attack than I have seen anywhere else. I read his niece's book about him recently which has many personal family touches and would recommend it.
#1591751
The hotel did an excellent job of organising. They clearly had no idea what they were letting themselves in for “If we don’t sell enough tickets...”. :-)

The hotel person did say that she is already doing another one in about a month I think but I think she said it is already sold out. Check that though if interested.

She did also say that she had heard that there was to be another one in Manchester.
#1592015
TimE – don’t mention it, my pleasure.

Just to add a little Hollywood “Awwwww!” factor; post war when Fraser was reunited with his wife, they moved to Canada and he named their two sons, John Hopgood Fraser and Guy Gibson Fraser and their daughter Shere, after the village where John Hopgood had been raised.

Later, through making a documentary about the raid, Shere Fraser met Joe McCarthy Jnr (son of Joe McCarthy, pilot of T - Tommy that attacked the Sorpe and was also the mount of bomb-aimer Johnny Johnson, mentioned herein) and these 2 children of Dam Busters were married. :pr: :pl: Now THAT happy occasion would have provided a worthy gene pool of exceptional quality! :cheers: