[mick w]

*Devil's Advocate*
I'd argue that the organising volunteers are actually in breach of their duty of care.
It goes like this..........
Risk assessment.....When was there last an incident,where "I didn't see them" was the cause?"
Never?.... "well it "could" happen. (yea, so could a lightning-bolt strike you.)

When the majority wear these things, they blend into the general scenario, therefore diluting their effectiveness.

Static electricity around the fuel-pumps....again, largely an imagined risk. There is, AFAIK NO recorded case, anywhere in the world, of a High-Vis. vest causing a fuel fire. (ditto, mobile phones) An imaginary risk, not borne out in real-world experience.

In case of fire, these synthetics can melt onto the skin, as well as burning fiercely
Are they a greater risk than being "unmarked" ?
I'm reminded of the tale of "jobsworth" driving to other side of airfield to berate an arrival for having no Hi-Vis....."HELLO ! How the FXXX did you know I was here then?"

Backside -covering to the N'th degree, is NOT risk- assessment and could result in greater problems than just an accurate evaluation.

I know of one local factory, where visitors have to walk across the car-park to the gate-lodge, sign -in and then don a high-vis..........to walk across the car-park

One here:-

[hatzflyer]

My post was tongue in cheek ,but it is infact more stupid than that. The rule is " at least one person in each aircraft must be wearing a hi vis vest ".
So that could be up to 75% may not have to ? That's just silly.

[Lockhaven]

members of the public either unwittingly or otherwise do tend to wander about all over....!

The club HAS recently introduced a high vis policy for visiting aircrew - which includes fly in events, partly to help identify genuine flyers who should know what they’re up to as opposed to casual non-flying visitors who may be unknowingly putting themselves at risk! So the high vis is not just to protect you the pilot, it’s to indirectly help protect members of the public too.....!

And now the potential visitors have read this thread they will all arrive with a Hi-viz so they can mingle undetected.

[G-BLEW]

Let's not do our best to turn this into anything other than a great event.

Ian

[JonBoy]

Let's not do our best to turn this into anything other than a great event.

Ian

“Hear Hear!”

My post was tongue in cheek ,but it is infact more stupid than that. The rule is " at least one person in each aircraft must be wearing a hi vis vest ".
So that could be up to 75% may not have to ? That's just silly.

Sorry if I misinterpreted “tongue-in-cheek’ness”! I was just quick to defend friends whom I know work absolutely tirelessly to ensure that people like myself who have little spare time to help get to have a great time doing what we love.
Oh - and I occasionally fly in to Exeter to visit relatives - different scale of airport I know but their policy - one high vis per aircraft!

members of the public either unwittingly or otherwise do tend to wander about all over....!

The club HAS recently introduced a high vis policy for visiting aircrew - which includes fly in events, partly to help identify genuine flyers who should know what they’re up to as opposed to casual non-flying visitors who may be unknowingly putting themselves at risk! So the high vis is not just to protect you the pilot, it’s to indirectly help protect members of the public too.....!

And now the potential visitors have read this thread they will all arrive with a Hi-viz so they can mingle undetected.

I’m not too concerned about this point - I don’t think the readers of Grimsby Telegraph who see our advert and think “let’s go for lunch and watch aircraft” are avid readers of the wonderful “Flyer Forum” (no disrespect to the Flyer Forum....!)

Putting this high vis stuff aside, do come and visit - you will have a great time!

[ChampChump]

Hatz will back me up if required (wont you?): at the annual flying at St Omer, it is the public that are given high visibility when amongst the aircraft. This seems to be a very sensible policy.

[hatzflyer]

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[Old Russian]

Ye Gods ! The public allowed to walk around the aircraft ? Now that is an accident waiting to happen, mind you that's France for you. I always understood a Hi Viz policy wherever it is, be it an airfield, factory, warehouse, building site and even the Police force is to make the wearer more visible. How can that be bad ? A person who is authorised to be 'airside' at an airfield be they a visiting pilot or passenger or employee/volunteer is potentially at risk from spinning props and moving aircraft. Wearing Hi Viz makes that person more visible to the pilot of that aircraft and therefor less of a risk. Visiting pilots are required to wear Hi Viz when visiting North Coates
Ok if there is more than one POB only one person is required to wear the Hi Viz, the assumption I presume is that the pilot will guide his passengers to the public area instead of wandering around like lost sheep. Nothing unusual about that its also the policy at Humberside and I believe most regional airports.
If an accident occurred ,say for instance somebody not wearing a Hi Viz walked into a moving prop or got clouted by a wing tip and injured or worse, the first thing the insurers would say is " what policy have you in place to mitigate the risk". if you haven't got a policy, i.e. wearing Hi Viz clothing for instance the insurance company would at the very least jump up and down or just walk away and the H & SE would have a field day. Surely its all about reducing the risk, that I believe is why the lads at North Coates do not allow the public airside. You do what you can to educate people, sadly some refuse to be educated. If those of you want to fly somewhere else other than North Coates because they ask you to wear a piece of yellow clothing then that's your loss. Its a great little place to visit, run by volunteers and well run by the way and doubtless the Hi Viz policy which is still in its infancy will become more well known. There is a lot of negative attitude with authority in aviation, lets not let it happen at the grass roots level. We should be supporting each other and not allowing negative attitudes to overthrow common sense. After all the lads at North Coates are only promoting Safety
By the way you can get Hi Viz with designer labels now.........whoa dont all rush at once !

[ChampChump]

The public allowed to walk around the aircraft ? Now that is an accident waiting to happen, mind you that's France for you.

Are you serious? Apologies if I have misunderstood, but for many of us, getting the public closer to aeroplanes is an important part of our 'mission'.

[flybymike]

If an accident occurred ,say for instance somebody not wearing a Hi Viz walked into a moving prop or got clouted by a wing tip and injured or worse, the first thing the insurers would say is " what policy have you in place to mitigate the risk".

I would tell the insurers that the end result of walking into a propeller would be the same regardless of the clothing being worn, except perhaps a mandatory suit of armour.

[Rob P]

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People do talk such **** about insurance.

Rob P

[Lockhaven]

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People do talk such **** about insurance.

Rob P

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[johnm]

Ironically we have developed a culture where the process is more important than the practicality. It stems from the blame culture we now have. Consequently it is assumed that someone else is responsible for one's personal safety. That someone else needs to make some sort of gesture to show that they've "done something".

In France the instinct of self preservation is alive and well and so these issues are much less important, but the basics are generally addressed sensibly.

In industry we talk of PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) with a view to trying to get people to understand that their personal safety is their problem and they are issued with equipment to support that. It works to some degree, but the culture differences across the channel were starkly visible when I worked on the Channel Tunnel project. MUCH more focus on Health and Safety on this side of Channel but more injuries and fatalities

[hatzflyer]

Question, if I fly into any airfield with 3 passengers and I am the only one wearing a hi vis vest and one of my passengers wanders into a turning prop who is liable ?

FYI I worked in the Health and Safety industry for more than 15 years and I have enough certificates and qualifications to paper my front room .
Let's be absolutely clear on this subject it has absolutely nothing to do with saving lives it is all about lots of people and companies making lots of money.

[Rob P]

Nobody, because you obeyed the rules scrupulously so everyone will be happy (Other than the unfortunate and his nearest and dearest of course)

Rob P