[Genghis the Engineer]

I've seen the terminology used in both civil and military environments, but have never found them very useful, so don't use them myself. In my opinion a well flown (practice or real) forced landing is flown with the application of a lot of flexibility and continuous reconsideration of the situation. That is not compatible with attempts to fit everything into a standard shape.

G

[James Chan]

I have never heard of high key and low key before. It's non-standard speak to me so I probably won't bother learning it.

The military can use all they wish on their own encrypted / UHF frequencies, but I suggest they use standard phraseology on the civilian / VHF frequencies if they wish to avoid misunderstanding with others.

[AFSAG]

Whereas Langley flying school states:

The high-key/low-key pattern is simply a circling approach (referred to in the Flight Training Manual as the “360° Forced Landing Pattern”), and it is the pattern taught in the Canadian military where high-performance, high-drag (and therefore steep engine-out glide) aircraft are typically flown. As the name implies, there are two key points, the first being the selected landing area itself—which is the “high-key”—and the point at which the pilot intends to roll out on to final—the “low-key.” The aircraft is flown over the high key, and a circling.......

http://www.langleyflyingschool.com/Page ... dings.html

???

[Cessna57]

I was taught it during PPL training as what are reasonable heights in an engine out situation in a PFL.

I.e. If you hit the low key position with <1000', forget it, you're now landing straight ahead. (ish).

Another way of embedding "the impossible turn"

It's the heights that are debatable iirc.

[Rob P]

I think that may have lost something in translation C57.

At 1, 000 ft Agl a 180 degree curving final would seem to me wholly achievable. If it was substantially less than 1,000 then debatable.

Rob P

[Iron Chicken]

I was taught the 'high key/low key' PFL technique at UAS ( Southampton - Chipmunks out of Hamble ) and I never got on with it very well. Too much distraction trying to make good the magic keys rather than the real job of flying the PFL. Years, and much gliding later, the BGA changed the standard square circuit to have a 45 degree cut off at the downwind/base point, to keep the landing area in good view. Essentially this turns the bottom end of the circuit into a constant aspect approach. Next PPL check ride (Sywell - Beagle Pup) I automatically flew a very nice constant aspect PFL, much to the delight of the instructor who commented " that's a good TLAR circuit".
So I discovered the meaning of TLAR, = That Looks About Right!

IC

[Irv Lee]

I think understanding the concept of the low key idea (but I don't call it that) leads to successful forced landings, (deciding before short final if you are going to make it, at a point where you can adjust the remaining part of the flight if you are not).
I'm not a fan of the high key concept.... A friend on an FIC course (to become an instructor) was told by his ex-mil CFS instructor that he'd be shown the perfect field where all student training would be done - starting of course at 2500' high key towards the upwind end. Points like "but should we really train students over the perfect field, not an average field, or different fields?" and "but supposing the engine doesn't cooperate in exactly where it fails?" had to be dropped after they provoked a military-insubordination-like response.
I had a few S.A. pilots who were used to not really having anywhere great to land, so if they started their scan away from the aircraft and happened to see a good looking field, they would just head for it without any thought to 'but is there a good one MUCH nearer?'. I have flown over Hampshire fields big enough to land a 737 to reach a good looking field on final that of course had pylon wires in it. The pilots always had to be re-wired to start to look in a cone around the aircraft.

[muffin]

Never heard of it in 40 years flying.

[kanga]

I first met 'Key' terminology at my first civilian FC, at a RCAF base in Canada with instructors who were mostly military-trained. This was in an era when RCAF used RAF jargon and methods in almost all things; perhaps they still do. CFI was a Sqn Ldr RCAF, who chose to retire before being restyled a Major CF (Air) (for that reason, he claimed, when I met him again a bit later ). I had previously flown a fair bit in the back of AEF Chippies in UK, but that did not involve PFLs even though in that era ('60s) I was allowed to do all the handling for T&Gs without any view forwards ..

Anyway, 'Key' jargon at this RCAF base but civ FC was used only in context of (P)FLs. On my return to UK it took me a while to get to my GFT with 2 different FCs, with some FIs certainly being ex-mil, but 'Key' jargon was not used for PFLs, nor were oval circuits for them. I first re-encountered them later at a different civ FC in UK during new member checkout, when I had the throttle pulled on me and I asked FI if I could use 'Key' method; very relaxed FI (ex-mil) replied that I could use any method I wanted providing I got to short final safely .. I have used it ever since. It surprised the FI, DoD employee but possibly not US mil aircrew, during my checkout at a FC at a US Army Airfield; I had to talk through the PFL to him as I did it, and then explain it on the ground afterwards.

However, I first met 'Key' jargon in a non-PFL context when, decades later, I had got permission to take shareoplane to a RAF base for an Air Cadet Camp week. On arrival on a Saturday with no military (nor, as it happened, civ from resident FC) aircraft flying, on first contact with TWR, I was given runway in use and QFE, and told to report 'High Key' rather than, eg, Overhead or Downwind, although I had not reported nor had a need nor desire for a (P)FL. Fortunately, I knew what ATCO meant, but other visiting civ pilots might well not have. I guess most civ pilots there would have been members of that or another RAFFCA FC and probably taught 'Key'.

Anyway, all was OK, but it illustrates a potential danger of using 'non-standard' jargon.

[Cessna57]

I think that may have lost something in translation C57.

At 1, 000 ft Agl a 180 degree curving final would seem to me wholly achievable. If it was substantially less than 1,000 then debatable.

Rob P

Yep, that's why I said the heights are debatable.
500' is an impossible 180
750' gives you 30 seconds of straight final afterwards in what I fly. If flown absolutely perfectly.

I suppose it's a way of stopping you stretching a glide, if you're at low key with >750. You are getting in.

Caveat: not done any PFL's for a year now. MUST do some next flight.

[Moli]

I have never heard of high key and low key before. It's non-standard speak to me so I probably won't bother learning it.

The military can use all they wish on their own encrypted / UHF frequencies, but I suggest they use standard phraseology on the civilian / VHF frequencies if they wish to avoid misunderstanding with others.

Just a quick point for general awareness for those flying ivo Mil airfields. I haven't read the whole thread but I did glimpse a diagram on this thread implying that High Key was at 2500 feet. The High key height varies with ac type eg a Hawk will be at 4500 when he calls High key.

ATB
Moli

[Cessna57]

I watched a glider do a forced landing at our airfield once.

He came in low key at about 300’, and did about 3 circuits before putting it down !

Definitely depends on aircraft type !

[Dave W]

I watched a glider do a forced landing ...

Do they have other kinds?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I watched a glider do a forced landing at our airfield once.

He came in low key at about 300’, and did about 3 circuits before putting it down !

Definitely depends on aircraft type !

And conditions. If the engine coughs at 1000ft, odds are you're unlikely to be flying a 1500ft high key, whatever you're flying.

G

[BlackadderIA]

High and Low Key should only really be a player if you're operating into a military airfield and then only if you're practicing a glide/pfl pattern.

It's standard phraseology and in CAP 413, just under the 'Military' section.

All part of the fun of flying into a military airfield along with oval circuits, QFE ops and joining via initials - you can even do a 'run in and break' in your 152 if that floats your boat**


** Added for comedy value only - don't really do that!