[Maxthelion]

I'm not saying a common standard is a bad idea, but propriatary closed protocols ought to be banned. If each manufacturer could detect any other's system then the best solution would be allowed to emerge via competition in an open marketplace without compromising safety along the way. It may well be the case that different systems really do suit different forms of avaiting, and as long as they can all 'see' each other then that would be fine.

I'm looking at you FLARM!

[Nick]

I'm not saying a common standard is a bad idea, but propriatary closed protocols ought to be banned. If each manufacturer could detect any other's system then the best solution would be allowed to emerge via competition in an open marketplace without compromising safety along the way. It may well be the case that different systems really do suit different forms of avaiting, and as long as they can all 'see' each other then that would be fine.

I'm looking at you FLARM!

I agree that closed protocols are a bad idea but there is nothing to stop you from connecting Power Flarm to your transponder to give ADS-B out. I have done this and it works.

This whole thread is very sad and I offer my condolences to all who who are close to it.

Nick

[PaulB]

I agree that closed protocols are a bad idea but there is nothing to stop you from connecting Power Flarm to your transponder to give ADS-B out.

Would this need certification in an EASA aircraft? It would also definitely need FLARM which I have not got.

[cockney steve]

AIUI, PAW is not an "approved standard" However, It's cheap as chips, is,it would appear, as reliable and robust as anything else, and, most importantly, EFFECTIVE.

Why people won't spend a little over an hour's flying-money,to increase not only their own safety, but other peoples' as well, beggars belief. IMHO It's a selfish, head -in -the- sand attitude. Hopefully, a few will get a scary "wake-up" call and spread the word, without loss of life.
The alternative is that an inferior, vastly more expensive system becomes mandatory.

No axe to grind here, as most know, I'm not a qualified pilot,but have a decades -long interest. Is YOUR life worth £200?:

[johnm]

There is a good deal of work on conspicuity going on. There's yet to be a decision on the practical way(s) forward. It is not a simple as CS suggests of course, but many of us are looking at practical options with a view to building them into our aircraft.

Until we understand more about what occurred the direct connection between electronic conspicuity (or lack of it) and this tragedy is a bit facile. It is quite likely that a number of other issues and options would have a role and that we can learn about the wider issues from the investigation in due course.

[Maxthelion]

I agree that closed protocols are a bad idea but there is nothing to stop you from connecting Power Flarm to your transponder to give ADS-B out. I have done this and it works.

Nick

I think the majority of FLARM users are gliders, which tend not to have transponders fitted anyway. The PAW guys have done some very clever stuff to make FLARM users conspicuous to PAW users. The cost of transponders and ADSB etc is probably prohibitive to many users at the cheaper ends of flying, which is why PAW is such a good idea.

[Artschool]

what is PAW?

[flybymike]

Here is a link to their homepage.

http://www.pilotaware.com/

For some reason they seem to indicate that the main unit is “out of stock”

I’ve lost track of progress with PAW. Is it still a jumble of self assembly bits, some of which are not currently available?

[ivor.phillips]

Last week going into Denham i had a PC12 creep up on my portside cutting the corner from the VRP, Pilotaware gave me good warning to keep out of his way even though he should have given way to me, Assuming he had seen me in the first place!

[Nick]

The majority of Flarm users may be gliders but they are probably the most difficult aircraft to spot. Lots of powered aircraft have Power Flarm and that makes them visible to each other. By connecting ADS-B to your transponder you also become even more visible to other systems, including PAW. OGN is a good initiative but is only available in certain area's.

I want to be visible to as many aircraft as possible, I also want my attention drawn to as many other threats as possible. It only tells me there is something out there and the level of threat. It gives me the direction to look. If you know where to look seeing is a lot easier.

It may be a pricey set up but I think it is worth it.

I don't know what is involved for fitting to EASA aircraft but for PtoF as far as I am aware, it is just a mod.

Nick

[FlightDek]

what is PAW?

I've got one. Next time we meet up I'll bring it along

Dek

[PeteSpencer]

We bought a PAW in a flurry of enthusiasm earlier this year: What a messy looking concoction of parts, two aerials and cabling: Plus a ruddy great battery needed to power it.(fag socket used up by SD on ipad mini and Garmin296)

Biggest problem was where to put it: rubber aerial fouled the windscreen: Thin whippy aerial wouldn' t fit on side 'window-sill' (PA28)

I got it to work, giving an intermittent readout on separate iPad, showing some contacts which were not visible but missing the C152 which went across my nose, safely higher but close (about a mile away).

Other members found they , like me, were spending excessive head in time wondering where the signal had gone to.
Its now in a cardboard box at the back of the hangar with no battery.

Peter

[ianfallon]

Bashing PilotAware on here never seems to get old does it

Installed completely hidden in our aircraft, powered and switched by the nav bus, integrated with the SkyDemon. Works well despite non ideal antenna placement. Sure it’s a bit easier for us on the Permit system but it can be setup nicely with a bit of effort.

At £200 an absolute bargain in safety terms.

[ianfallon]

Was the C152 100% definitely transmitting at least one of: ADS-B, PAW, mode S,C ? Perhaps they should shell out £200 too.

Even more confused that you’re complaining it saw things you didn’t - that’s the whole point of it.

[Full Metal Jackass]

The majority of Flarm users may be gliders but they are probably the most difficult aircraft to spot. Lots of powered aircraft have Power Flarm and that makes them visible to each other. By connecting ADS-B to your transponder you also become even more visible to other systems, including PAW. OGN is a good initiative but is only available in certain area's.

I want to be visible to as many aircraft as possible, I also want my attention drawn to as many other threats as possible. It only tells me there is something out there and the level of threat. It gives me the direction to look. If you know where to look seeing is a lot easier.

It may be a pricey set up but I think it is worth it.

I don't know what is involved for fitting to EASA aircraft but for PtoF as far as I am aware, it is just a mod.

Nick

I have a GTX-330ES transponder but only have 'old' GNS430s fitted (non WAAS). If I want to transmit ADS-B out, I need to fit an 'approved' GPS source, which is as near as damn it 3k plus installation and paperwork..... ADS-B would be the way to go but at those prices?

Whilst talking about pricing, if PowerFlarm Portable was more reasonable in price - say 500 - 600 quid plus 50 - 80 quid a year licensing, I'm pretty sure it would be THE solution.