Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Charley Farley
#1565365
I rang for PPR at one airfield. They asked if we had a new 8.33 radio, because they had a new frequency. We hadn't installed the new radio yet (we have now) and he said........."No problem, I don't know where the new hand-held is, so you probably wouldn't get an answer anyway. Just free call on the old frequency when you get here".
Love it.
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565373
I share some of the same concern - given how slowly some recent frequency changes have promulgated.

There would be some logic in the approach that you suggest .... anyone still using 118.000 (i.e. 118.000MHz with 25MHz spacing) would still be able to talk with a station on 118.005 (i.e. 118.000MHz with 8.33MHz spacing).

Then next year as new charts/plates/etc are issued force the migration to 118.005, freeing up the channels in between for whatever they are needed for.
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By Marvin
#1565376
Our frequency goes from 135.125 to 135.130, unconfirmed until we renew our licence in Feb2018.

Certainly our website brimpton-airfield.co.uk will be updated and as all inbounds are required to PPR for entry into the R101 zone then it will feature in the PPR response.

The Airfield entry in the Sports and Recreation section of the AIP will be updated and I intend a NOTAM be published. Which hopefully will be reflected in the downloadable frequency chart but we might miss the print deadline for the CAA southern Chart.

Unfortunately the Pooleys and AFE guides take the information in Aug/Sep so although they’ll be advised you will have to hand amend by whatever notice you get from this suppliers.

Not found anyone to crawl into the roof of the hanger to repaint the printed frequency yet any volunteers :-)

Had a long chat with CAA project manager but no solution from that side hence the plan above.

Does that help?
By Nomad63
#1565385
My brain hurts,what about Safety com?, I can't even work out what the nearest freq using 8.33 spacing is (why on earth couldn't they have chosen 10 khz?)
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565390
peterlondon wrote:Presumably SkyDemon will be up to date as soon as new frequencies are promulgated

It hasn't been in the past - I think it changes when the AIP changes, which can be several months after the actual frequency change.
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565394
Russ_H wrote:My brain hurts,what about Safety com?, I can't even work out what the nearest freq using 8.33 spacing is (why on earth couldn't they have chosen 10 khz?)

A pilot doesn't need to know the frequencies - you just input the channel (which looks like a frequency but isn't). Safetycom remains as is, until someone notifies that it has changed.
8.33 was chosen to allow two additional channels in between each existing channel spaced at 25MHz
Two additional channels was chosen because it's the maximum that can be squeezed in.
Some channels will remain as 25MHz for a couple of reasons:
1) to allow compatibility with old equipment
2) to allow for multi-transmitter frequencies, where different transmitters are offset slightly from each other.
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1565412
Presumably frequency changes will be promulgated in the same way as they always have for a bit of airspace or airport, airfield, private strip, farm strip, ... ?

Presumably pilots will pick up this information from a proper pre-flight briefing? (for those that still do a pre-flight briefing for those all too familiar burger runs :wink: )

As for when?.... well, 1st January 2018 comes to mind from the legislation that has been driving us to get (or attempt to get) an 8.33kHz radio fitted by that date. Some frequencies might change earlier, some might change later. Does not bother me as long as I use the correct official frequencies for the date of flight.

As some aircraft wont have been upgraded by then, the queue to get a call in might be a bit shorter than usual due to the increase in non-radio traffic.
:wink:
By hatzflyer
#1565458
What a dog's dinner!
For the first 5 years that I flew I never had a radio :(

Presumably it is still legal to fly non radio? ( Yeah ok I know not in controlled airspace ).
By Shoestring Flyer
#1565472
I don't see what is so difficult...
Just check the flight frequencies you intend to use prior to the flight, using the the same method you use now Pooleys/Chart/Skydemon or whatever, as you do now. Any en-route frequencies you will be given as normal when changing ATC units....simples! :D
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By rikur_
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565528
Shoestring Flyer wrote:I don't see what is so difficult...
Just check the flight frequencies you intend to use prior to the flight, using the the same method you use now Pooleys/Chart/Skydemon or whatever, as you do now.

For the recent frequency changes around here:
1) They happened on different dates
2) Only one was notified by NOTAM
3) The AIP and Skydemon didn't change for nearly 2 months after one of the changes (and it was a listening squawk frequency, so potentially you didn't know you were listening to nowt)
4) Anyone relying on traditional charts/pooleys/etc would be none the wiser

I see a few potential issues (none world stopping, but potentially irritating)
a) if every frequency change gets notified by NOTAM, then reviewing NOTAMs will be worse than the directory of countries that it's a tad risky to overfly
b) if they are not notified by NOTAM, then how else do you find out about changes until they eventually trickle through to the AIP and printed stuff? Not necessarily an issue for somewhere you are calling for PPR, or an en-route hand-over .... but when you want to make an en-route ATZ transit, diversion, or listening squawk, etc.
#1565662
All the "frequency changes" that I have heard about so far aren't actually frequency changes at all. They are all just going to the 8.33kHz channel for the frequency they previously had on 25kHz. For example, Newcastle approach "moves" from 124.375 to 124.380, which is a frequency change of exactly 0Hz in the topsy turvy world of 8.33.

This "change" means that existing 25kHz radio equipment will continue to work until such time, probably never, when the adjacent 8.33kHz channels are allocated. I fully expect most if not all regional airfields to do the same. We don't need 8.33 in the UK and never have needed it, as the above nonsense makes patently clear.
lobstaboy, scottish_ppl, Iceman and 1 others liked this
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1565680
Wouldn't a "big bang" approach be clearer?
On one propagated day, every place that is going to change will change.
Updated frequency cards (with a start date at the top) could be distributed via the normal channels.
One FIR wide notam can cover the lot with a link to the frequency card.

I suggest 1st January 2019. Up till that date, the 25kHz version will still work (so Ofcom wont allocate frequencies either side of the central one).

What I would like, with all of these available new empty channels, is for the CAA to publish a group of frequencies which can be used for Aircraft <-> Aircraft chat to allow groups and formations to coordinate in the air, rather than using some unofficial or sub-standard means. Would be an easy safety case (ensure no surprises in formations, can communicate when breaking off, can allow joint weather decisions, provide a way for someone who isn't the leader to communicate back to the leader, etc). At least then, people would be able to see some minor benefit to this process?
rikur_, T67M, xtophe and 2 others liked this
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