Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1559523
Bill McCarthy wrote:Charles - you must be kidding. It was pure luck that a bomb hit the runway and all it did was to scare the Argies for a little while. I like the comment about the others "straying off"


I could have predicted that as an ex matelot, you would take very opportunity to take a swipe at the RAF. You have a track record of doing so.
#1559526
Bill McCarthy wrote:Charles - you must be kidding. It was pure luck that a bomb hit the runway and all it did was to scare the Argies for a little while. I like the comment about the others "straying off"


The strategic effect of Black Buck complemented that of Conqueror sinking Belgrano. We can argue about the military effect ad-infinitum; the Falklands was predominately a Naval/amphibious conflict and no one can deny that. BUT, lets not be hoodwinked into thinking that the RN, ably assisted by Sharky, did it all on their own. :D

(Yes, I spent a long time studying this stuff whilst at Staff College).
#1559542
I freely admit that the RN took a real hammering during the conflict with the majority of ships taking a hit. I was down there on our newest submarine which carried torpedoes designed in the 1920s (there were several on board that were manufactured in the year I was born 1944). It's akin to that "wonder weapon", the Typhoon, firing at the enemy with a pistol from the cockpit ! I'm afraid I have to bite my tongue over one RAF failure, directly affecting us, which I am not at liberty to disclose. I can however reveal more of a lighthearted F up by them. A simple mail drop by the RAF to us after four months dived on the return leg, off Assension, We surfaced for the drop (obviously) but the mail splashed down over a mile away. The only way we used to recover mail was by a tethered "Swimmer of the Watch". The mail was washed ashore in Brazil somewhere but we actually got the mail months later, opened. Accuracy, my aris. And, how long does it take to fill in a single bomb crater.
#1559597
I could have predicted that as an ex matelot, you would take very opportunity to take a swipe at the RAF. You have a track record of doing so.


Haha, I saw this and realised that I'd have been accused of the same thing if I hadn't only just read this thread :D

I really don't know what the Crabs were trying to prove by undertaking such a mission. It can only have been to demonstrate the vulnerability of Argentina because it did nothing for the Falkland Islands. As Allout said, the diagonal bombing strategy is straight out of the manual for the Weapons Employment Course (how many reference books :shock: ) but the effect on the operation of the airfield was negligible and the means never justified the end.....for the islands at least. The Argentinian Air Force/Navy aircraft were never going to be able to reach the Falkland Islands with enough fuel to hang around and employ their weapons properly (ignoring, for the time being the threat from the Mighty SHAR :D ) without putting their carrier to sea. With the likes of Bill around (sneaky buggers, all of them :D ) they sensibly decided to keep it safe at home, instead of joining its Belgrano counterpart.

Still, a reasonable stab at mission planning ( I say that because it was not sustainable and didn't actually work out too well), some outstanding efforts by the Junior Service (especially Martin, who ended up having me as one of his Jet Provost students) but, in the end, a rather desperate attempt by the RAF to prove they had something to add to a battle that was too far away for them to reach (stand fast their Harrier people who were worth their weight in gold) and added little to the result apart from giving the Senior Service a HUGE amount of mick-taking ammunition AND getting its own bar song :mrgreen:
#1559717
It's a pity when Mess/Wardroom banter or narrowly focused autobiography somehow becomes reliable history for some. Those who attended or, even more, contributed to relevant Staff College courses will know much of the true value of all the contributions by the various Arms of Service during Op Corporate, including the various Black Buck missions and of course the submarine force. The full story of both of these is, for still valid reasons, not fully public.

:salut:
#1559720
The BBC World Service can take some flak too - they broadcast to the world that the Argentinian bombs were bouncing over and through ships without "going off", so, when refused correctly ...............
#1559721
Bill McCarthy wrote:The BBC World Service can take some flak too - they broadcast to the world that the Argentinian bombs were bouncing over and through ships without "going off", so, when refused correctly ...............


As far as I know, no part of the BBC broadcast anything which had not been released by MoD in off or on the record briefings, sometimes involving Ministers including PM choosing to reveal more than Chiefs wished. This was for domestic political reasons but obviously reached an international audience. As ever, happy to be corrected.
#1559739
Joe-fbs, the stories are all there and, in time, will be released. The military is very good at accurately recording facts together with balanced opinion. Unfortunately, there is a growing trend of 'Sharkys' spinning things from their personal perspective with this often not providing a balanced story. That said, I've read some enthralling and candid personal accounts of the most recent skirmishes in Afghanistan.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1559742
I often say that in my view David Morgan's Hostile Skies is a balanced and an extremely personally honest Falklands memoir that, in time, I think will come to be seen as a classic.
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