Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1559424
matthew_w100 wrote:I have always assumed my EASA PPL covers me to fly flexis now, on the strength of the SEP rating. I wouldn't expect to do anything additional to be allowed to do so.


It's not the SEP Rating that covers you; it's grandfather rights from your previous microlight experience. In the absence of that experience, A.N.Other with a PPL SEP cannot legally fly microlights without additional training and signoff.

I do not know if an invalid SEP Rating means that you can no longer just fly microlights, as @jamespearce was told. It would seem illogical, though, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Any ideas, anybody else?
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1559441
The UK PPL(A) D and later UK PPL(A) M required revalidation by experience gained in the previous 13 months, signed off in the logbook by a microlight instructor. I don't think those microlight privileges are revived by a SEP rating. I would expect an hour in a microlight with an instructor, at least.

Note to self: Do it in a Quik. :D
#1559511
Yes, but when I got a UK PPL(A) group A that trumped the group D. The group A covered me for all planes below 5700 kg, which included microlights. I'm pretty sure the EASA PPL plus SEP does the same, modulo the fact I need to demonstrate that I have, at one time, been trained to fly a flexi.
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1559565
(6) A Part-FCL licence with single-engine piston aeroplane privileges is not deemed to be rendered valid for a microlight aeroplane unless the holder of the licence has undergone differences training in accordance with Chapter 2 of Part 2 of Schedule 8, appropriate for a microlight aeroplane class rating.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/cy/uksi/2016/765/part/6/chapter/1/made?view=plain

It is probably a good idea to get an entry in the logbook mentioning that the FCL licence is rendered valid for microlights on the basis of a previous microlight licence. I don't know what the currency requirements are though.
#1559605
So if you have an EASA PPL but retained the UK PPL A which allowed you to fly microlights - can you not fly them on the strength of that? I ask as I have flown microlights in the past and still have a UK PPL alongside my EASA one. Am I legal to fly microlights with my UK PPL and grandfather rights?

SS
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1559612
There is no such thing as a "microlight rating" for a PPL, though - so there is no microlight rating revalidation signature possible.

Edit: WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN HERE IS WRONG! I'll leave it here and explain below, though.

It is Differences Training, just as tailwheel (for example) is.

I don't require a tailwheel signature because I have grandfather rights pre-JAR. The same should logically apply for Microlight grandfather rights, I would expect.

Explanation of my error:
I fell into the trap of extrapolating from my own licence/Rating cmbinations and did not check my own table!

As the table shows, a UK PPL (like an NPPL, but not an EASA PPL) can have a Microlight Rating applied to it - as at least one person so far has one has gently reminded me by PM. :D

You can also fly microlights on a UK PPL following Differences training and associated logbook signature, as is the case with an EASA PPL.

Image

You may think this is a mess; it is.

But I suspect that we have ended up where we have (in part) because the UK CAA have attempted to support private pilots' previous privileges. If they had simply said "Nope, EASA Rules apply, and that's yer lot" then some long-standing UK pilots would ave lost out. Unfortunately, that has resulted in the array of alternative combinations that we now see. This could be the "least worst" solution for the affected individuals, though.
Last edited by Dave W on Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1559636
The auestion was:
Am I legal to fly microlights with my UK PPL and grandfather rights?


How can I have grandfather rights on a licence that is no longer valid, because it lacks the certificate of experience?
User avatar
By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1559637
The issue isn't the grandfather rights, it's the Class Rating validity. Without a valid Class Rating, you are unable to exercise the privileges of the licence.

Your mention of a signature by a microlight instructor/examiner is a red herring I think.

Edited to say "Class Rating" rather than just "Rating", as it seems there may be potential confusion - I've had a PM that I am researching for understanding!
Last edited by Dave W on Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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