[joe-fbs]

Interesting video posted in another place.

My own thoughts: The reporter got a traffic service! I have had one from Farnborough once for a descent through cloud in Class G south of Reading, the rest of the time when the talk is so continuous it might be Radio 4, it’s basic service only and as the video makes clear they act not as a service but as a police force. Now that is clearly all very necessary for the safety of CAT but can they please stop pretending. The pretence spreads across people like the Airprox board and the CAA who constantly tell us we should get traffic services from LARS units which for large chunks of the country are Monday to Friday office hours only and this year are additionally constantly NOTAMed not available because of lack of staff. All that kit and not enough people also appears to be a strong message from the video (individuals working several tasks are mentioned). Also, they think they are controlling in Class G (the Assistant ATCO says so). They think their private jets are not GA (statement by the manager in her interview).

I don’t want or like this them and us attitude but the impetus for it seems to come from the Farnborough side, I want to be a helpful and cooperative private pilot but I would also like a useful safety service and equal treatment with other GA.

[Trent772]

Interesting video, good balance.

Answers from the boss lady about who gets priority was handled like a true politician

[T67M]

Also some very interesting stats about infringements avoided by Farnborough:

• 952 in 2015
• 614 in 2016
• 116 in the first half of 2017

I am struggling to rationalise these figures with the assertion elsewhere that infringements aren't decreasing.

[ratman]

I am struggling to rationalise these figures with the assertion elsewhere that infringements aren't decreasing.

here we go again !!!

[T67M]

I am struggling to rationalise these figures with the assertion elsewhere that infringements aren't decreasing.

here we go again !!!

When two sets of statistics are published which do not match, one set must be wrong, and sensible people ask questions. I am sorry if that approach is anathema to you.

[ratman]

I am struggling to rationalise these figures with the assertion elsewhere that infringements aren't decreasing.

here we go again !!!

I am sorry if that approach is anathema to you.

There is a lot of infringed airspace out there that Farnborough doesn't control in, but that is pretty obvious. The 2 most infringed portions of CAS are in the Southampton and Manchester/Liverpool areas; neither controlled by Farnborough.

I will look to get statistics of the situation at the end of 2017; that is a neat date to base the year's actives on.

[flybymike]

Still an impressive rate of reductions for Farnborough, regardless.

[Gertie]

When two sets of statistics are published which do not match, one set must be wrong

Quite often not, they're simply measuring different things.

[T67M]

When two sets of statistics are published which do not match, one set must be wrong, and sensible people ask questions.

There is a lot of infringed airspace out there that Farnborough doesn't control in, but that is pretty obvious. The 2 most infringed portions of CAS are in the Southampton and Manchester/Liverpool areas; neither controlled by Farnborough.

That is certainly a good point, which leads to the follow-up question of how, if the area around Heathrow/Gatwick/Stansted/Luton is seeing such a dramatic improvement, can the lessons learned there be applied to other parts of the country.

I will look to get statistics of the situation at the end of 2017; that is a neat date to base the year's actives on.

Statistics and, even better, regular publication of comparable year-on-year dis-identified data are welcomed. The withdrawal of public access to the primary official source of data (the MOR database) really hasn't helped informed discussion as it has drawn what looks like a veil of secrecy over a hot topic of concern for everyone.

[Iceman]

Answers from the boss lady about who gets priority was handled like a true politician

Yep, that comes pretty well up there in the BS stakes (and I'm not talking Basic Service here ).

Iceman

[Mike Tango]

I don’t want or like this them and us attitude but the impetus for it seems to come from the Farnborough side, I want to be a helpful and cooperative private pilot but I would also like a useful safety service and equal treatment with other GA.

I don't know, by apparently trying to cherry pick out and highlight as many agenda fitting negatives as possible you're possibly doing a better job at building a them and us attitude than anyone at Farnborough ever has or will.

[chevvron]

As I did Farnborough LARS for 34 years including opening East and North, I'm waiting for a few more comments before I comment - I haven't watched the video yet as I don't like crying in my sunday lunch.

[James Chan]

I would also like a useful safety service and equal treatment with other GA.

So do all of us I think!

Unfortunately due to present limitations in resources & funding, I think services will inevitably be concentrated towards flights where more lives will be lost (i.e. A large passenger carrying jet) if there ever was an incident.

That said I don't think it means any individual life (i.e. passengers in light aircraft) is seen as any less valuable though.

If we want services to be improved we're likely to need to lobby our MPs for greater funding.

The USA for example recovers costs through AVGAS duty and air passenger duty I think.

The UK recovers LARS costs through taxation but there are limitations. Other navigation costs are funded through en-route charges, which all aircraft less than 2MT is currently exempt, and terminal navigation charges, which every aircraft pays after landing at an airport.

There may be a case to improve services further as nobody on the ground (I.e uninterested third parties) wants to have debris sprayed over their heads or property in the unlikely event of a collision involving a light aircraft! I suppose airprox and midair reports can be used as evidence.

[GonzoEGLL]

Also some very interesting stats about infringements avoided by Farnborough:

• 952 in 2015
• 614 in 2016
• 116 in the first half of 2017

I am struggling to rationalise these figures with the assertion elsewhere that infringements aren't decreasing.

Yes, but these two sets of statistics are measuring very different things.

Your quoted set measures the number of occurrences when a Farnborough controller believes they prevented an infringement. This is sometimes a subjective evaluation of a situation, and very often it's too busy for them to actually record each occurrence.

This is not related to the number of reported actual infringements, which are far less subjective situations.

One could argue there should be an indirect correlation, but given that ATC can really only prevent infringements by aircraft on frequency (whether receiving a service or just listening), then there is a set of aircraft/pilots self selecting out of those criteria by not being on frequency.

[chevvron]

The UK recovers LARS costs through taxation

Where do you get such rubbish?