[skyhawk701]

Hi,
Is anyone aware of state of General Aviation activity or has flown to Middle East and in particular to Saudi Arabia. I am aware that politics currently overrules everything in that part of the world. But has anyone ever ventured out that far? If so, I shall be interested to hear your experience. Not interested in political views, merely G A Activity

[Iceman]

Andy R or Dave Phillips are probably the guys to whom to talk.

Iceman

[skyhawk701]

Thank you Iceman

[Lockhaven]

Hi,
Is anyone aware of state of General Aviation activity or has flown to Middle East and in particular to Saudi Arabia. I am aware that politics currently overrules everything in that part of the world. But has anyone ever ventured out that far? If so, I shall be interested to hear your experience. Not interested in political views, merely G A Activity

Flown over Saudi Arabia many times in GA aircraft (PA28's and PA34's) via Egypt towards Oman although a number of years ago. No big issues then, make sure you get overflight permission and of course if landing any local permissions, probably best these days to have a flight planning company deal with all that, check that avgas is available, currency talks (dollars), check your performance figures for summer as it normally reaches around 50 degs C, large areas with no VHF coverage below 10000', do not deviate from your flight planned route other than for wx avoidance, GPS is blocked in certain areas.

[Anthony Bowles]

Very much as Lockhaven says. However avgas in Saudi has become more difficult and it is no longer possible to get avgas at Riyadh which is around the half way point between Jordan/Egypt and Oman (the main international airport no longer allows the avgas bowser from a neighbouring GA field in). Also flying over the Sinai peninsular is no longer possible because of unfriendly people below necessitating a diversion to the south and adding to route miles.

That said, GA flights continue to happen on a regular basis; Eddie Gould of GASE and Mike Grey of White Rose are good contacts to advise on avgas availability and obtaining the necessary overflight/landing clearances.

[skydriller]

I know you said no politics, but as someone that is in the sandpit on a regular basis, you also need to be aware that (due to local politics) over the last couple of months, Qatar has been and continues to be a no-go area from all of the surrounding middle eastern states bar Iran, which has complicated things for some of us in the region...

Regards, SD..

[nallen]

The Saudis are also busy blowing the crâp out of the town of Awamiyah, on their east coast, a little north of Bahrain, so you might want to avoid that area …

[skyhawk701]

Thank you gentlemen, as usual very helpful and knowledgeable bunch.

[Lefty]

I tried to fly to Jordan during July this year. (Several decades ago I had lived and worked in Jordan for 5 years - and was very keen to see how much it had changed).

In my planning stages, I spoke to Eddie Gould and he was indeed very helpful (as was Dave Phillips of this forum - whose day job sometimes has him flying piston twins down that way).

Our intended routing was Paphos - direct to Amman via Israel - with a backup plan of routing down through Egypt to Aqaba (southern Jordan - just north of the Saudi border).

At the very last minute, the Israeli's refused our overflight, however we decided that the cost and complexity of transiting Egypt wasn't worth it and we elected to park the a/c in Paphos and proceed to Amman via scheduled flights.

Eddie Gould offers a good and relatively reasonably priced service at 6th October Airport near Cairo - if you can get there ! However one of our aircraft (a PA28B) did not have the range to get to October Airport from Crete or Cyprus - which would have necessitated a fuel stop in northern Egypt - (Alexandria area) - and another stop in South East Egypt near Hegada before crossing into Jordan.
Handling fees were quoted in the region of USD 1500 - 2000 for each aircraft in Alexandria and Hougada - and Avgas at over $10 per litre (compared to $1,14 in Jordan).

Handling fees in Aqaba were $1200 + per a/c - per visit

Also several parts of Egypt are still classified as (dangerous) no-go areas by the UK Foreign Office.

So the options were :
a) $6-8000 in fees, plus 4 tanks of fuel (per a/c) at $10/ litre (probably $8000 per a/c) - or
(b) £340 (total) for four return tickets on Alia (Larnaca - Amman return)

I don't have that kind of cash to throw away - so the decision was absolutely a no brainer.

Last point - it is virtually impossible to get VFR style charts for any of the Middle East. We were IFR, but as we were in SEP's, we still wanted to have a clue about what kind of terrain we could expect- and what options we would have in the event of a technical problem.
I resorted to (a) Doing dozens of screen prints from SkyVector charts, and (b) getting a friendly airline pilot to do screen prints from the charts on their company iPad.

[Basil]

Those quoted costs for Aqaba are too high. I passed through there in April, landing cost $180, handling etc $280, parking overnight $75, fuel $3.50/litre. SEP aircraft.

[Dave Phillips]

Once you can get hold of the rules, it isn't too difficult. AVGAS is the main driver but you also need to get your head around Middle Eastern ways. Saudi is probably the trickiest but only because of culture. About the only place you can guarantee AVGAS is Thumama (OETH) some 15 miles North of Riyadh. They are a small GA airfield but are very friendly and probably a good place to base yourself. They have a small flying school (mostly DA40/42) and a few private aircraft including SR20/22s I blagged a load of 15W100 from them and I'm sure they would help with minor technical issues. Customs/immigration needs to go through a major airport (e.g. OERK) but the prices aren't hideous by Middle East standard; they're still hefty though.

Flight planning is quite easy and they will accept most routes that don't have daft requests. I had heard that they didn't like VFR outside of CAS but in reality I've never had an issue. We use Jeppesen/Garmin Pilot electronic charts and these are fine.

Cash - carry US $. This is accepted everywhere although one problem I have had is that cards, if accepted, have to be credit cards and not debit (Bahrain is the same).

Aqaba (which is a bit off-route for any significant Saudi flights) is a nice airport and I agree with Basil in that the prices aren't hideous. I don't recollect them having AVGAS (I was in a DA42 that time) but there is an Extra Aerobatics team based there so I guess there is some kicking around.

Israel - Lefty's bunch wasted their time even thinking about overflights.

Please don't hesitate to ask more specific questions.