[Cub]

If that explanation makes you happy then great. Just so long as we are all working towards the same goal.

[leemoore1966]

If that explanation makes you happy then great. Just so long as we are all working towards the same goal.

I totally agree, I think this is great news that the CAA will provide WX info over 978UAT, this is clearly a positive move and is to be commended
It appears that the transmission protocol will be 978/UAT based, in which case to implement this on PilotAware systems can be achieved with additional development.

We are however disappointed that the CAA has, once again, excluded sharing information with us during this trial, but sadly this is unsurprising. Perhaps there will be a change of heart from the CAA, in sharing information in the future for the benefit of ALL airspace users, including PilotAware and FLARM

I was initially encouraged by the announcement which included the following statement

All will be undertaken in close cooperation with the GA community and equipment manufacturers to make sure that we can implement the findings as quickly as possible

However to quote Neville Chamberlain, in the case of PilotAware:-
'I regret to inform you, that no such undertaking has been received...'

In which case, once information is in the public domain (rather than privately held between the CAA and their preferred partners) we would endeavour to add this functionality for the benefit of all GA.
Until that time, whilst this policy persists, then we can only await further disclosure from the CAA into the public domain.

In summary, great step forward, disappointed not to be invited to the table

PilotAware Team

[Cub]

I see no reference to a CAA trial of 978/UAT but only by two companies who I suspect made all the advances and are taking all the risks at their expense.

There are lots of opportunity for all of us I would suggest, IF adopting the preferred protocol.

[patowalker]

The Pilot Aware team did not achieve what it has by sitting at the CAA's table and I suspect not being invited will only serve as an incentive to give the selected manufacturers a run for their money.

[Dave W]

How do we know that this is a "By Invitation" party?

We should not assume that: It is just as possible that the companies involved approached the CAA rather than the other way around. Or a mix.

[gaznav]

Personally, I would like to see ADS-B out being mandatory for all flying in Class G IF:

1. There is a unit cheap enough to do it - sub £400 would be my suggestion. Even if that meant reduced functionality - ie. ADS-B out only. £200 ADS-B out only would be even better.
2. It could be used instead of transponders in TMZs and other pieces of airspace requiring transponders (like FL100+ for example).
3. A connection of a non-certified GPS to an existing Mode S-ES transponder in any aircraft of <2730kgs could be done and approved at less than my suggested £400.

If those 3 conditions could be met, then that would be reasonable in my humble opinion. I suspect that FLARM would stay within the niche gliding community and that PAW would 'whither on the vine' following any mandate. However, if cheap, light and carry-on then this would not be too big an issue for gliders, ssdrs, etc... to follow such a mandate.

Best

Gaz

[Nomad63]

What happend to LPAT?

[Bob Upanddown]

We are however disappointed that the CAA has, once again, excluded sharing information with us during this trial, but sadly this is unsurprising. Perhaps there will be a change of heart from the CAA, in sharing information in the future for the benefit of ALL airspace users, including PilotAware and FLARM
In summary, great step forward, disappointed not to be invited to the table
PilotAware Team

How do we know that this is a "By Invitation" party?
We should not assume that: It is just as possible that the companies involved approached the CAA rather than the other way around. Or a mix.

I know of more than two companies who actively approached the CAA to get involved in various issues affecting maintenance and equipment, especially 8.33 khz radios. The invitiations from the CAA to become more involved were not received.
OK, CAA can't consult with everyone but maybe they are consulting only with the companies who agree with the CAA proposals or have the funding to lobby the the CAA, EASA and other NAAs?

[Pete L]

2. The ability to provide and utilise surveillance data at locations and at cost far lower than traditional radar installations, may mean that a far larger cadre of people on the ground are able to provide assistance on the basis of that data. This needs a lot of work and conceptual development but the FASVIG project will look at what non-radar qualified people MAY be able to provide as a result of having access to surveillance data. This MAY include the provision of an alert to an aircraft if it was observed as about to penetrate or inside CAS.

I believe the German Flight Information Service uses FISOs for this task. I've not yet been able to confirm if they have a traditional radar qualification.

[T67M]

Personally, I would like to see ADS-B out being mandatory for all flying in Class G IF:

1. There is a unit cheap enough to do it - sub £400 would be my suggestion. Even if that meant reduced functionality - ie. ADS-B out only. £200 ADS-B out only would be even better.
2. It could be used instead of transponders in TMZs and other pieces of airspace requiring transponders (like FL100+ for example).
3. A connection of a non-certified GPS to an existing Mode S-ES transponder in any aircraft of <2730kgs could be done and approved at less than my suggested £400.

If those 3 conditions could be met, then that would be reasonable in my humble opinion. I suspect that FLARM would stay within the niche gliding community and that PAW would 'whither on the vine' following any mandate.

Why on earth would PAW "wither on the vine" in the circumstance described? PAW is primarily a fully inter-operable ADS-B "in" receiver which would benefit from any ADS-B "out" transmitter/transponder described in options 1 and 2. Furthermore, PAW is a suitable non-certified GPS for use in option 3, and all for less than the £200 "ideal" price point.

PAW is part of and fully inter-operable with an ADS-B future, and it is much cheaper than the non-inter-operable "niche" FLARM.

[gaznav]

Because there are far cheaper ADS-B in receivers with weather available than £200ish plus an annual subscription?

https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/resources-for-while-youre-building/building-articles/instruments-and-avionics/live-weather-and-traffic-for-less-than-$120

[T67M]

Because there are far cheaper ADS-B in receivers with weather available than £200ish plus an annual subscription?

https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/resources-for-while-youre-building/building-articles/instruments-and-avionics/live-weather-and-traffic-for-less-than-$120

That "product" doesn't work with 1090 ADS-B, only 978 which isn't being proposed for the UK. The price quoted doesn't include the case, or the barometric compensation which is essential to get accurate traffic height relative to your aircraft, nor does it have the certification required to allow it to be legally sold in the UK. Otherwise the software and hardware is basically the same as a PilotAware, so your objection basically comes down to a dislike the tiny annual fee charged by the PilotAware team who obviously should be working for you for free...?

[typo fixed]

[Paul_Sengupta]

The Stratux receives both 1090 and 978 but it's a bit more homebrew when it comes to fitting things like baro sensors and AHRS sensors.

[gaznav]

PilotAware team who obviously should be working for you for free...?

When I buy (ie. not for free) a piece of electronic equipment I don't expect to have to pay to use it 1 year later. I think that is reasonable unless I want to upgrade it's capability and then I might want to pay. Even FLARM do their updates for free!!!

Thanks to Paul for answering the other point.

Best

Gaz

[Ian Melville]

TV detector van is on its way the Chez Gaznav