[Dave W]

Ah, "EEA" - of course. Bossman has been too long in Oshkosh, perhaps.

[JoeC]

We can 'achieve' Brexit quite easily.
Two line act through parliament tomorrow: "The UK parliament hereby assents its sovereignty of the UK. The UK with immediate effect withdraws from the EU. All EU laws and regulations, directives, court judgements are immediately null and void within the UK. No court can overturn this act."
There you go - job done.

You've not thought that that through have you?

Sounds good down the pub and a bit macho too. Biff! Take that Johnny Foreigner! But it would mean having no laws for the majority of the activities that help our country run.

And what's this " No court can overturn this act" ? Sounds like one of the notes written by kids that end with "and this is the law forever and ever...". I'd laugh if it wasn't so desperately sad.

[patowalker]

There's a negotiation going on.

We cannot draw firm conclusions from anything said by anyone in public yet.

If this is in reply to my comment about Junker not being pleased with your comment, you missed the point. He is an ex-Prime Minister of Luxembourg, a founding member of the EU and seat of the European Court of Justice.

[WingsOff]

The commercial operators on both sides of the channel are more concerned about our ongoing membership of the ECAA, also under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Without the freedoms of the air and Open Skies relationships resolved, on paper, March 2019, you wont be flying to Spain anymore for your holidays. Mr O'Leary has shouted about this till he's blue in the face and yet there is not a single comment from the ministries involved to indicate what path they propose going down to resolve this giant woolly mammoth in the room.

[MercianMarcus]

... you wont be flying to Spain anymore for your holidays. ...

No one believes that do they? But if the unimaginable did happen I guess brits would holiday elsewhere and those elsewhere countries would get an economic boast while Majorca got a kick in the maracas.

[nallen]

(crossed with MM he types with more fingers than me.)

And also doesn't need to lift his knuckles out of the dust.

[Irv Lee]

with the rider that I don't think we will leave EASA at all but may well pay to stay in:
Ideally ( ).... everything before the start of the Commercial course would be subject to National rules which of course we already have for annex 2. The move to EASA would start by 'standardising' a pilot pre-CPL for those wanting to go to CPL, and EASA would only be upwards from there. I don't mind pilots pre-CPL volunteering for EASA stuff if there were a means to do that too, but we should not have to have someone banned from flying a C150following the a303 from Popham to Thruxton on an NPPL purely to bow to dogma of politically driven officials who never understood what they were doing at that level.
The whole main idea of the JAA and JAR which led to all this was the automatic validation of commercial licences to allow free movement of commercial pilots for jobs - ie: a UK interviewee for Ryanair to start next Monday would not have to say "oh, can't start Monday, I will need an Irish validation of my UK CPL first". But whilst NOT understanding private flying, they decided to start at the bottom.

[MercianMarcus]

Can I add something to Irv's ideal ... and that the CAA are taken out of the equation such that pre-commercial licencing is dealt with by a self funding, competent authority that is not an oxymoron.

MM

[WingsOff]

The constant 'oh don't be ridiculous, they'll never let that fall apart' philosophy is exactly what's ringing alarm bells on pretty much every piece of legislation or regulation that we're assuming we just cut and paste into the UK law and regulation. WTO rules don't cover aviation access agreements, they have to be negotiated separately, and with individual non-EU countries and mind-blowingly complex and burdensome task. The timescales ahead simply don't allow for any clear and concise resolution to so much that we will be subject to interim and temporary arrangements for years, only if acceptable to the other EU27, who can, collectively choose to cut off their nose to spite their face, should they wish to do so. 'Tough luck, you're on your own UK, sort your own messes out, bye, bye' We are in one huge tsunami of a mess that has barely got started, in fact we haven't started - won't until the divorce settlement is fixed first. On the matter of Spain, you can bet your bottom dollar that this is a once in 200 years opportunity to put an almighty spanner in the works off the back of the Gibraltar situation. The rest of the EU26 will back them all the way, up to a point.

If, today, the Government's red line is still to have nothing that we adhere to or comply with that still has any oversight by the European Court of Justice, then, indeed, we start from scratch, can't cherry pick, on our own.

Logic of course says mirror exactly EASA or (ideally?) FAA legislation, but we'd have zero ability to change or influence that when historically we have had a huge influence on EASA rule making.

[MercianMarcus]

... but we'd have zero ability to change or influence that when historically we have had a huge influence on EASA rule making.

Are you saying the UK used its huge influence to create the current abomination?

MM

[GrahamB]

Dare I suggest that the CAA may in some cases have helped prevent the abomination being even worse than it is?

[Irv Lee]

I believe they sent someone senior to explain about nppl ssea rolling validity just after 5 years of live trial had failed and we had moved back to rating expiry dates a few months before in 2007. He explained rolling validity without a clue what had been happening at "using it" level or that the UK rules had already been changed to proper ratings and expiry dates.
So now we have EU law for a lapl, duplicating the genuine mistake made by a work experience student unsupervised during a paste/copy in the new Ano for 2002,

[Bob Upanddown]

The work to change from JAA to EASA started 15 years ago?? Maintenance was one of the first topics along with engineer licences . And still the transistion goes on with Part-NCO and all the rest. Does anyone think 15 year's worth of work can be undone and dumped on the CAA's plate in 18 months??
Yes, of course they do, silly me.

Aviation is not the only idustry so affected.

And what about our ability to fly abroad?? Will Amber Rudd insist we all land at Heathrow, Gatwick or Manchester to clear customs and immigration when free movement ceases in 2019? Probably.
Because these are policitians who resign when they get it wrong and then get a book deal.

[peter272]

Spot on.

As I see it the CAA will announce that they will recognise the EASA licences as being valid in the UK for the forseeable and that RTOS and ATOS will continue to train for EASA.

Similarly all other EASA approvals will continue as is.

The problem will arise is if UK training or maintenance organisations say 'stuff this for a game of soldiers' and pack up. After all each change has cost them mightily in time and effort only to be changed again a few years later.

One thing that won't happen is to reestablish the CAA as it was. The govt won't pay for it, doesn't want it and can't see why it's necessary. And with Grayling - a man with the true SADIM (reverse Midas touch) as minister - what can possibly go wrong?

[Flyin'Dutch']

The only small issue with this is that the organisations need to be recognised by EASA and if our political leaders tear up their sub then EASA has nothing to recognise.

You need to be part of the EASA club to be able to use its regulations and more importantly to have what is done in the UK recognised by EASA.