[Squadgy]

A couple of weeks back there was adiscussion about performing 'land afters' at uncontrolled airfields.

"A couple of years ago, I was having a pub lunch next to Oban airfield when I overheard two (British) pilots have a discussion about how they thought the 'one at a time' rule was stupid and that their intention was to disregard it in future."

Highly unlikely that it was the same pilots - but this is an example at Ince from this weekend of the potential outcome:

The incident aircraft was making an approach to runway 36 (length 380m) at Ince when the previous landing aircraft suffered a minor defect resulting in it being temporarily disabled around one half the distance along runway 36 & off to the right of runway centre line.

The incident aircraft continued the landing & was unable to stop within the available landing distance on runway 36 resulting in a runway over-run. The aircraft came to rest to rest in a ditch beyond the airfield boundary (co-incident with runway end) with occupants above to leave the aircraft without assistance.

[The Kissimmee Bum]

That ain't no ditch. It's a river!

River Alt. Pretty deep these days too.

[Rod1]

Many years ago I was gliding at a hill site. The wind was steady and just sufficient to keep a lot of aircraft tacking back and forth but there was no thermal activity. Then, suddenly, the wind stopped completely. There are now 20 ish gliders all around 1000ft AGL all trying to land in a moderately sized field. How we all managed to get down without hitting each other is still a mystery to me, but I had to lift a wing over another glider during the ground roll! I often think that a power pilot would have died of stress:)

Rod1

[GolfHotel]

Many years ago I was gliding at a hill site. The wind was steady and just sufficient to keep a lot of aircraft tacking back and forth but there was no thermal activity. Then, suddenly, the wind stopped completely. There are now 20 ish gliders all around 1000ft AGL all trying to land in a moderately sized field. How we all managed to get down without hitting each other is still a mystery to me, but I had to lift a wing over another glider during the ground roll! I often think that a power pilot would have died of stress:)

Rod1

Thankfully the chance of 20 power pilots all loosening their power supply at the same time is remote.

The wisdom of 20 pilots putting themselves in a position where it is a "mystery" how they managed to avoid hitting each other is something I will leave without further comment.

[Crash one]

Perhaps in the event of the local atmosphere suddenly changing to carbon dioxide causing a formation of twenty aircraft to lose their power, they may well have had enough sense to pick several fields as they communicated with each other. In any event it is unlikely they would have loosened anything other than their door latches prior to the forced landing.
As for dying of stress, why would they do that? Is it a belief among glider pilots that power pilots can't handle a power failure? or a crowded circuit? I certainly believe glider drivers think power pilots don't keep a lookout! What else can't we do?
Also, even the most rudimentary training glider with a glide ratio of 25-1 would have approximately 78 square miles of available space to land in, so was this a case of "get homeitis"?
No wonder there is a "them and us" attitude.

[Joe Dell]

There seems to be a growing trend on this forum to quote rules and regulations. Shock and horror expressed if an aircraft touches down with an aircraft half a mile ahead, yet to exit the runway for example. Is there such a thing as CCD?
Compulsive Compliance Disorder? Is it spreading through the flying community? Is there a cure?

[PeteM]

A couple of weeks back there was adiscussion about performing 'land afters' at uncontrolled airfields.

"A couple of years ago, I was having a pub lunch next to Oban airfield when I overheard two (British) pilots have a discussion about how they thought the 'one at a time' rule was stupid and that their intention was to disregard it in future."

Highly unlikely that it was the same pilots - but this is an example at Ince from this weekend of the potential outcome:

The incident aircraft was making an approach to runway 36 (length 380m) at Ince when the previous landing aircraft suffered a minor defect resulting in it being temporarily disabled around one half the distance along runway 36 & off to the right of runway centre line.

The incident aircraft continued the landing & was unable to stop within the available landing distance on runway 36 resulting in a runway over-run. The aircraft came to rest to rest in a ditch beyond the airfield boundary (co-incident with runway end) with occupants above to leave the aircraft without assistance.

That reads much more like someone who was not looking out of the big window at the front and instead was stuffed up his mates rear!

So although the runway is not blocked - the lead aircraft is off the runway, the gentleman in this report goes off the end of the unobstructed runway. Sounds very much more like simple poor speed and touchdown point management than much to do with land after - although that might have been a distraction.

[Flyin'Dutch']

There seems to be a growing trend on this forum to quote rules and regulations. Shock and horror expressed if an aircraft touches down with an aircraft half a mile ahead, yet to exit the runway for example. Is there such a thing as CCD?
Compulsive Compliance Disorder? Is it spreading through the flying community? Is there a cure?

It was always thus and a not infrequent observations is that the more vociferous are not uncommonly those with the least day to day experience.

However sticking to 'the rule' on this occasion would have avoided the embarrassment, mind you so would the application of common sense.

But let's not be unfair and start speculating until the AAIB report is out!

[MercianMarcus]

I don't see the parallels the OP is trying to draw.

The incident described is not what I'd call land after. The pilot chose to land on a runway that was blocked (as opposed to one that was occupied.) You can see his rationale: I'll land beyond (not after) the blockage so there's no chance I run into it. It was a bad call - we all make them occasionally.

MM

[rf3flyer]

There seems to be a growing trend on this forum to quote rules and regulations. ...Is there such a thing as CCD?
Compulsive Compliance Disorder? Is it spreading through the flying community? Is there a cure?

I don't think it's confined to the flying - populace (can't bring myself to use the 'c' word). It seems to me to be a much wider phenomenon than that. I call it 'lane bound', a road allusion but indicative of a self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude. It seems to me it's quite a British thing, quite Calvinistic and dour, but I could be wrong.
Is there a cure? Probably not though a consideration of glass houses and stones could be in order.

[Mike Tango]

What else can't we do?

Note the smiley on Rod's post and gracefully accept a gentle ribbing, perhaps?

[malcolmfrost]

A Go Around is one of the hardest manoeuvres to decide on, as pilots we are very task focussed, and once we have decided to land, it's very difficult (mentally) to change that decision.
The safety focus in CAT is very much on Go Arounds, with gates at various altitudes if not stable, and even balked landing training if touching down outside the marked touchdown zone, something that only used to be done by training captains during circuits.

[Rod1]

Note the smiley on Rod's post and gracefully accept a gentle ribbing, perhaps?

This lot - not very likely

Rod1

[Talkdownman]

A Go Around is one of the hardest manoeuvres to decide on, as pilots we are very task focussed, and once we have decided to land, it's very difficult (mentally) to change that decision.
The safety focus in CAT is very much on Go Arounds, with gates at various altitudes if not stable, and even balked landing training if touching down outside the marked touchdown zone, something that only used to be done by training captains during circuits.

Every approach is to a missed approach or a go-around. The landing is a bonus.

[buzzthetower]

I'm confused. If the runway was blocked midway how did he manage to run off the end into a ditch? If he landed before the blockage then he would have hit the other aircraft. If he landed after then he must have flown over the top and had plenty of time for a go around.