Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Spooky
#1541232
rf3flyer wrote:Do we presume these were Rotax? I cannot tell the a/c type from the one photograph though it looks microlight-ish so I assume 912s. Makes me glad mine is not a Rotax.
I'd be devastated if that happened to mine, and I'm talking about the rape of the aeroplane here. Is there no way to stop this or do we have to move in to our man caves with a shotgun?



An aircraft with a Jabiru engine was left, so targeted theft of Rotax again :(
#1541235
gfry wrote:In my mind hangar security needs to be increased. People are paying a few grand a year to keep their pride and joy in a glorified shed. They should at least be some for of security beyond a cheapo pad lock, things like CCTV, an alarm, better more fortified perimeter gates..... or maybe all of those measures.



Not disagreeing at all, but another way of looking at it might be:

Put their pride and joy at a location where all of those things are in place - and accept that everything has a price.

My 60ft*40ft hangar is purpose designed and was built 5 years ago. It currently houses my own aircraft plus those of a couple of local owners - it is behind a security automated gate, is alarmed, does have security lights and does has people living on the premises. etc. etc.
Hangarage charges here are therefore not the cheapest in the area - even then the income from the two aircraft hangared here only just about covers the Hangar Keeper's and Airfield operator's liability insurance and some diesel/maintenance costs for the mower tractor (but I am not worried about that as it is not operated for profit and I see whatever income arrives as a contribution towards costs that I incur anyway to have the airstrip and hangarage facility here for my own convenience).

We recently did a costing exercise to evaluate the viability of building a second hangar here and, in view of lots of teeth sucking and 'How much!' comments, quickly came to the conclusion that the local market would not stand what we would have to charge to make a sensible (any?) return on expenditure.
By Cessna57
#1541239
ChampChump wrote:Knowing that an engine is now in Romania doesn't get it back, though, does it? Does anyone know what happened to the ones discovered en-route that were found in Italy?

I understand that Rotax were offered a system of part numbering so at least individual components were traceable, but declined. I'm hazy on this, but someone here will be able to correct me.


Geofencing your GPS and getting an alarm when your engine moves and knowing which shed it's in waiting to leave the country does.

Before it goes to Romania it's handled here. How is it even known if they go to Romania?

The thief, currently living in <insert whichever English county you don't like> is reading this thread and chuckling away to himself/herself and looking at the engines in his/her front room, right now.

We're not going to get the thief in Romania, we need to get him/her here.

I bet they're not even going to Romania, no one knows where they are actually going.

Maybe one will get tracked, then we'll find out where they actually go.
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By buzzthetower
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1541273
I've noticed on Afors over the last year, quite a few wanted ads for any kind of microlight with a 100 horse engine. Given that would narrow it down to a Rotax and they don't seem too particular which type or aircraft they are looking for I have my suspicions they are fishing for suitable locations to steal from. There is an ad on there at the moment although it does atleast specify a few types of aircraft "preferably 100hp, foxbat,skyranger, nynja,cash ready", It's probably legit but makes you wonder.
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1541293
Perhaps it is time LAA engineers/inspectors of rotax engined aircraft routinely checked the identity of the engine on an aircraft. Make it a mandatory inspection and frequently enough with randomly selected inspectors and see what happens. It would be a deterrent to fitting a stolen engine to a UK based aircraft.
#1541296
Engine ID is a routine part of a permit renewal inspection.
Without Serial no of the engine it is not possible to do the AD and SB check - each engine log book is tied to the engine serial number and is again part of each and every annual inspection.
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By Mr Bags
#1541297
This is a worry to our syndicate. Of course it's not just dealing with the insurance company to cover the cost of the engine replacement and excess fees, but on our self built machine, the time it would take to fit, test and be signed off and no doubt the additional costs in renting an alternative aircraft to keep flying/current etc. :roll:

It looks like the only solution is to find some 'Powered by Jabiru' stickers and apply liberally!
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By flyingeeza
#1541298
Hmmm...think about this for a minute...

Other than the hoses, pipes and wires that they chop off, why do they always leave the aircraft and airframe totally undamaged?

Does that not ensure that there will indeed be a claim for a new engine?

So who benefits most from a steady stream of new engine orders then?

If a bunch of respected wealthy executives could fiddle the numbers to make VWs appear to have excellent omission levels in the name of money, then heaven knows what other schemes greedy men might conjure up.
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1541318
Charliesixtysix wrote:Engine ID is a routine part of a permit renewal inspection.
Without Serial no of the engine it is not possible to do the AD and SB check - each engine log book is tied to the engine serial number and is again part of each and every annual inspection.


Does that happen abroad as well (eg Europe or wherever it has been suggested these engines/parts end up) ?

Given all the regulations and checks in aviation there must be a hole in the system somewhere for stolen parts to get used.
By ChrisRowland
#1541340
How difficult would it be to give an engine a new forged identity? A change of the engine ID plate I suppose, along with a bushel of forged paperwork purporting to come from the manufacturer. How convincing would this need to be? Would an inspector routinely check with the manufacturer that the ID was kosher?
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1541371
To spot a good fake you would need to know all the attributes of the genuine item.
For example BF can spot fake passports that would look genuine to most of the general public.

Similarly there is reportedly a lot of fake currency in circulation and some people wont spot if a shop/pub etc has given them a fake that was received from another customer....

With engines, the motor trade are much better at spotting tampered with serial numbers and identity plates than the general public. There could be similarities with rotax engines.

Another option is to use products that mark an engine with millions of tiny identifying marks that get everywhere and virtually impossible to remove all of them. The marking kits usually come with a sticker indicating a marking product has been used as a deterrent.
By Cessna57
#1541386
That's what I don't get.
Why are owners actively doing nothing ?

Why hasn't every owner bought microdots, smothered them liberally over their engine and then publicised they have done so ?

Who isn't there a thread on here called "I've micro dotted my engine, have you ?" That can be updated anonymously like the "it happened to me" thread, with a zillion owners saying "I've done mine now".

Again,.. why are owners/pilots taking no steps to protect these engines. If everyone does it, if everyone engraves and microdots their engines, then these will not be saleable in the UK.

These thieves read this forum, and they know nothing is being done to protect these engines.

I don't mean to sound grumpy, but I do, I'm sorry, it's displaced anger towards the thieving ****
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1541406
Microdots are only going to be useful for matching an engine back to it's owner once recovered from the thief.
Noone has found a stack of engines in a shed with unknown owners.
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1541407
TheFarmer wrote:The sooner G-INFO is shut down, the better. It's not helping anything or anyone. Except for spotters and thieves.

Except the location from G-Info is only useful if an aircraft is parked outside the owners house.