[Paul_Sengupta]

I think Ian was probably asking what the minima were for VFR, what they are for SVFR and what are the circumstances where a pilot should ask for SVFR...

This is all a nonsense anyway, as the 1000ft from cloud rule is there for visual separation on aircraft descending out of cloud. You're not going to get aircraft descending out of cloud from the Heathrow CTR into the White Waltham circuit.

[neilgeddes]

Thank you Paul (and Irv). The penny's dropped on that one!

[rodan]

If I were hypothetically the aerodrome operator at an ATC/FISO/licensed aerodrome with an ATZ enclosed or partially enclosed by the Class D of a nearby airport, I'd be joining forces with the operators of other such aerodromes and lobbying CAA SARG hard for a greatly abbreviated Airspace Change Proposal to be accommodated.

The purpose would be to trim the Class D airspace around such aerodromes so that their ATZs were no longer enclosed by it, on the basis that I was now at a huge commercial disadvantage purely on the basis of someone else's Class D.

[G-BLEW]

I think Ian was probably asking what the minima were for VFR, what they are for SVFR and what are the circumstances where a pilot should ask for SVFR...

Yup.

When Irv said

But you are in a very small minority if you know when you should ask for svfr, and probably an even smaller number who would know what it would mean in practice.

I was thinking that a plain English explanation about SVFR would be of benefit to the people not in Irv's very small minority.

Ian

[neilgeddes]

The problem's the 1000' vertical separation from cloud isn't it? Not the increase in flight vis from 1500m to 5KM (though that could sometimes be a pain). So vertical separation from how much cloud? From any light fluffy bit or from the BKN/OVC cloud ceiling? If the METAR is FEW009 or SCT010 then could we be ok? I've just studied the SERA regs for my CPL and can't recall a definition or stipulation for the quantity of cloud for vertical separation. But hey...

[G-BLEW]

If we ever get to the point of being able to understand SERA, the AIP, expiring ORS4 exemptions, MATS Part 1 and the multitude of interpretations put on every combination of the above by anyone from ATC guru to anonymous forum newby then it should make us even more interested than we already should be in the applications for large swathes of controlled airspace by Farnborough, Exeter etc.

We'll soon be at the point where the initial licence will be an instrument rating, 'cos flying with one of them is an awful lot easier than the advanced and operationally far more complex VFR rating, which will require significantly more hours of training and study.

Ian

[UpThere]

Just to add a bit of IR(R) confusion to the mix , does this restrict the use of an instrument approach to get below cloud for a VFR approach to another aerodrome? For example, using Doncaster's ILS followed by a landing at Gamston. If the cloud base is 1200 ft, you'd then have to transit through Doncaster's class D using VFR before, arriving at Gamston's ATZ, which is outside of it.

[dont overfill]

Just to add a bit of IR(R) confusion to the mix , does this restrict the use of an instrument approach to get below cloud for a VFR approach to another aerodrome? For example, using Doncaster's ILS followed by a landing at Gamston. If the cloud base is 1200 ft, you'd then have to transit through Doncaster's class D using VFR before, arriving at Gamston's ATZ, which is outside of it.

Continue IFR in VMC?
G-BLEW, you are right. IFR is simpler.

[Irv Lee]

When Irv said

But you are in a very small minority if you know when you should ask for svfr, and probably an even smaller number who would know what it would mean in practice.

I was thinking that a plain English explanation about SVFR would be of benefit to the people not in Irv's very small minority.

Ian

Well if there is no VFR due cloud or vis, and you haven't got ratings to go IFR, I suppose the benefit of SVFR is to be able to get into or out of the zone even if it means burning fuel over a VRP or holding point whilst waiting for other aircraft to be at a suitable distance!
I don't know what they will say here, but in SA, when you call up, the controller would say the zone is "IMC due to a 1400' cloudbase" (other reasons are available) and then any VFR clearance request is simply refused until you remember to add the word 'special'.
I think my first article for Flyer nearly 20 years ago was exactly this wasn't it? Do you do reprint fees?
Basically there used to be two reasons why a PPL only pilot would want SVFR - one was to fly in a CTR at night, and the other was to be absolved from what was the 1500' rule if that would be a problem on your task (although you still had to land clear). That was because vis 10km minimum was needed in the old days (and only 5km for VFR like today), and you only had to be clear of cloud and sight of surface at 3000' amsl or below. Those two reasons have changed.
Now, the very unusual UK 10 km minimum for SVFR has gone, leaving you with a combination of low visibility licence limitations and vfr airspace limitations, but for VFR, the 5km visibility minimum and cloud rules apply at any altitude in the CTR. So if at least 5km and no cloud "issues", ask for VFR, but they would give SVFR if you ask for SVFR, so don't ask. If there are any cloud or vis issues (and can't keep cloud distances, or vis below 5km), Hobson's choice, SVFR or nowt.

[Robin500]

I Thank god I'm based miles from any bloody controlled airspace. I believe the time as arrived when some, including myself will be considering whether flying for fun is worth all this nonsense.

[CloudHound]

Irv, playing the thick lad (easily) - without an IR(R) and, assuming no cloud issue, less than 5 km vis is a show stopper?

[Paul_Sengupta]

What's the current SVFR visibility minimum?

[G-BLEW]

What's the current SVFR visibility minimum?

SERA.5010 SVFR in control zones…

1500m for aeroplanes, 800m for rotary (both at 140kts or less), ceiling not less than 600'*

Ian
*I think

[Irv Lee]

in the past it was 10km minimum for UK licence holders (strange "UK" licence thing), 3km minimum for IMC holders, but that has gone out of the window. I seem to remember at that time there was a control unit or two that had local procedures of "never below a local minimum" but not sure if that was UK or abroad. However, assuming that is not the case, the ANO definition is:

“Special VFR flight” means a flight conducted in accordance with the Visual Flight Rules cleared by an air traffic control unit to operate within a control zone in meteorological conditions below Visual Meteorological Conditions

so nominally, without other issues, 1500m (the licence minimum) for you and me, can't remeber helis.

[Paul_Sengupta]

Paul's simple Q&A section, question 2...

Do you need to be talking to a radar controller (or other controller) to get SVFR?