[Silvaire]

The current situation with FAA pilots and aircraft in Europe has evolved into multiple layers of nonsense compounding nonsense, all of which wouldn't exist if European regulation had been rational and reasonable to begin with, or made so without delay or unending talk. More widely, I think incidents of chaos and inefficiency like this will occur in Europe until the current ridiculous and over complex system of government collapses widely under its own weight. The issue then becomes whether a rational reformulation can occur.

This is Python-esque.

[G-BLEW]

The issue then becomes whether a rational reformulation can occur.

I have a slightly different take on it.

- Current EASA people not perfect but significantly better than old EASA people. Current EASA people daling with problems left in the system (old dumb regulation)
- There was a slow and cumbersome process to put off the old regulation until a BASA could be agreed
- The deadline was missed and we're all now suffering
- The UK CAA could have helped but didn't thanks to a DfT decision
- Someone in the CAA has a very arrogant view of 'their' medicals vs FAA Class III medicals and has unilaterally decided that FAA Class IIIs are sub ICAO and only for domestic US territory.
- If the people at the DfT and those deciding on medical stuff have a role in reformulation I think we'll be screwed.

Ian

[Jetblu]

I think we'll be screwed.

I think you could be right on this one.

It is no wonder that this country is in such a mess. The lunatics have clearly taken over the asylum and they just won't let-up.

[rightrudder]

Update, following long discussion with CAA FCL department

1.      Currently the rules apply to EASA aircraft.

2.      On the basis of an FAA licence and flying a G registered (Annex II) aircraft you would not be able to fly outside UK airspace. An FAA licence when used to fly an aircraft on another register is only valid in the airspace of that State and the ANO only permits a G registered aircraft to be flown within UK airspace on the basis of a Third County Licence (excluding EASA licences), unless   hold a valid validation issued in accordance with the ANO, then you could leave UK airspace.

3.      Completing the exemption requirements would bring you into line with UK requirements, however, to allow to EASA and NON-EASA aircraft within Europe, you would have to ask the question of the Member State of EASA that you wished to fly into to confirm their standards.

4.      A PPL self-certification medical is only valid with a UK National licence, as it fails to meet EASA requirements.

[gaznav]

"A PPL self-certification medical is only valid with a UK National licence, as it fails to meet EASA requirements"

That is not what it says in CAP1441 - http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP1441_MedicalLicenceTable_V10(08March2017).pdf

It quite clearly states that you CAN fly non-EASA aircraft with a self-certified medical and an EASA PPL

Gaz

[Flyboy430]

Having read through this thread, I seems the original question has not been answered.

For what it's worth, I just had my form 2140 signed off by an EASA FE who also happens to be a Prof. of Aviation Medicine. He was catagoric that an FAA Class 3 medical is equivalent to an ICAO Class 2.

[G-BLEW]

So far, everyone BUT the CAA seems to think that an FAA class III is equivalent to an ICAO Class II.

Ian

[glazer]

So when is this class 3 class 2 problem going to be resolved? I am grounded in the mean time

[Grelly]

I don't think it will be. Email from the CAA:

Thank you for contacting the CAA on this matter.

Article 33 is clear as to its intent:

Article 33

Recognition of certificates and licenses

Certificates of airworthiness and certificates of competency
and licenses issued or rendered valid by the contracting State
in which the aircraft is registered, shall be recognized as valid
by the other contracting States, provided that the requirements
under which such certificates or licences were issued or
rendered valid are equal to or above the minimum standards
which may be established from time to time pursuant to this
Convention.

In accordance with Annex I, Chapter 6, paragraph 6.1.1 b), of the ICAO Convention, the medical of a PPL holder is required to be at a minimum of Class 2.

Therefore the UK requirement that a valid Class 2 medical must be held by a Third Country Licence holder flying privately, is not in contravention of the ICAO Convention Article 33, but a requirement to comply with it.

There are other options open to you, such as the Part-FCL Light Aircraft Pilots Licence (LAPL), this is a sub-ICAO licence and the LAPL medical is less onerous than the Class 2 and allows access to the airspace of all Member States of the European Aviation Safety Agency, the other option is the National Private Pilot’s Licence (NPPL), with the simple single-engine aeroplanes (SSEA) rating, this is also a sub-ICAO licence, and can make use of a self-declaration for the medical subject to any medical conditions or the LAPL medical.

I hope that the above information provides clarity on this issue.

Regards
John Overall
Policy Specialist - Licensing
Policy
Civil Aviation Authority

[riverrock]

What was your question?
That answer is generic - not specific the FAA issued medicals.
Was it, "Can you confirm that a USA FAA issued Class 3 medical is recognised in the UK as an ICAO Class 2 medical as the FAA believes it is"?

If you fly, ultimately, a court would decide.

[glazer]

I fly an N reg and I understand the FAA does not accept the LAPL. So that route is not available unless I convert my aircraft to G or sell it.

[Grelly]

I looked up the difference between FAA Class 2 and Class 3 medicals. As far as I can tell, the only difference is a slightly raised eyesight requirement. (and it only has a 12 month validity as a class 2). I'm inclined to explore that route. I suppose a Euro-class 2 is a possibility too, but it's a lot more expensive.

[glazer]

In my case a change to FAA class 2 would be an angiogram

[Grelly]

I thought this might be of interest. It is an exchange between an affected pilot and IAOPA:

Question:<Quote>
Request: For information. You are probably aware there have been recent changes to the pilot license requirements for flying in Europe. The UK has in the past simply accepted FAA PPL as valid to fly in UK airspace. As of 15th April this year that has been changed. The UK authorities have decides that an FAA PPL is not compliant with the ICAO regulations. This is because ICAO requires that a PPL is accompanied by a medical called 'class 2' and the FAA medical for PPL is called 'class 3'. If this is the case the problem is not confined just to the UK and Europe. I have asked the FAA Airman Certification Branch for its interpretation of the international status of the PPL. The reply form Jesse Horn: "Our certificates are valid in our airspace. If you fly in another country's airspace, you must abide by their regulations." This puts the onus on individual pilots to check with the authorities of the country they are going to fly to if a sub-ICAO license is acceptable to use in their airspace. I know of many pilots, myself included, that have just flown off to say, the Bahamas from Florida, without knowing this. As the FAA does not seem concerned I thought perhaps AOPA might be in the best position to publicize that fact that the holder of an FAA PPL in foreign airspace may be flying without a valid flight crew license. This would of course make the flight illegal and therefore also not covered by insurance. </Quote>

Response:<Quote>
Mr. ****, Joe Kildea forwarded your message to me as I have been working the issue since we were first made aware of the situation. The FAA has clarified that the FAA Medical Class III is in fact a valid ICAO class II license and will be taking steps to clarify this situation with the UK CAA. We are hopeful that there will be a solution announced which should clear up this situation. Thank you very much for sharing this information with us.

CRAIG J. SPENCE
Secretary General, IAOPA
International Council of Aircraft Owner and Pilot Associations
p: 301.695.2041Call: 301.695.2041 |
a: 421 Aviation Way, Frederick, MD (USA) 21701
http://www.iaopa.org</Quote>

[glazer]

Many thanks for getting the FAA response. That is looking positive! Please keep me (all of us) informed of any developments.