Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By avtur3
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1526799
OK, I’m not a pilot (although I am an experienced GA passenger) so that’s why I’m asking this question …

Sat watching and listening at an airfield this afternoon, many inbound radio calls identifying and asking for joining instructions.

I hear someone call up, he was told there are three in the circuit, he replies “I will join downwind”, where everyone else joins overhead. It came across as though the pilot told the FISO that was what he was doing, and indeed that is what he did.

I maybe completely wrong but got the impression that FISO was expecting the pilot to join overhead and become number four.

Pilot arrives downwind and very quickly closes up on the number 3 in circuit; so he overtakes number 3 (above him) and goes for extended downwind (after talking to FISO).

Even after extended downwind it is obvious that this pilot is very close to the traffic in front of him, in the final seconds of his approach it is obvious the runway is not clear so he calls to go around (actually it was obvious it was going to be a go around long before the pilot called it); he then executes a tight circuit as number one all the way around and lands.

I know the aircraft in question is based at the field and the aircraft is probably a bit quicker than most aircraft operating from this field. Because the aircraft is based there I would assume that the pilot knows what other aircraft are likely to be in the circuit, i.e. many and probably all slower than him.

I couldn’t help get the impression that this pilot was almost trying to push his way in. The way he joined, then having to go to an extended downwind and yet still closing up on the traffic ahead to the point where he had to go around; something didn’t seem quite right.

May be there isn’t enough information here to make an informed comment but watching the movements for a couple hours, and it was very busy with a mix of fixed and rotary operations, this one approach stood out from all the others.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1526801
Not very clever, at a FISO controlled field he can do what he likes in the air, but must follow FISO instructions on the ground. With others in the circuit he would have done better to sequence in from the over head and overtaking in the circuit is a no, no. Our aircraft is about 30 knots faster in the circuit under normal conditions than a 152, but if I find myself following a 152 I drop the gear, and flap and throttle back to his speed, it's a bit of a pain but that's what you do. If it's simply not possible to get slow enough the other option is to fly a wider circuit.
mick w, Spooky, A le Ron liked this
By chevvron
#1526803
Pilot's decision. He was given the information about circuit traffic, the FISO cannot instruct him to join overhead although they can suggest it. I personally say 'at your discretion' and time permitting, pass an update on the positions of the circuit traffic, plus possible speed differential and whether the one ahead intends to full stop or touch and go, anything which might put a smidgen of doubt in his mind that a downwind might not be the best idea.
He was the one who had to go around, so maybe he's learned something?
Had he landed before the runway was vacated, the CAA require an incident report.
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1526866
No. I suspect he was just a typical circuit bully. The type you will find at almost any airfield - and who thinks that the rules are there for the others and don't apply to people like him who fly fast / expensive aircraft.

As said the FISO has no power to " control" him, but the airfield operator has the ultimate authority to ban persistent offenders from using the airfield. However if said offender spends loads of dosh - operators have been known to chicken out.

It is simple bad manners.
By chevvron
#1526882
Witnessed a good one yesterday from my home west of Fairoaks. Fairoaks on 06 left hand pattern and a Cirrus appears from the west heading east as if trying to join right hand for 24 ie opposite direction.
Wonder how it worked out.
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By TLRippon
#1526885
Point of order. Although not great on the airmanship front, the only part of the circuit where overtaking is not allowed is on Final.

You only have to read through the many threads on here talking about the overhead join to realise that some pilots will never do them.
By Barcli
#1526887
Just bad manners - I suspect he really wanted to go around to show off some more.... He also probably believes as he is based at "his" airfield the others are a nuisance. Avtur3 - if this is at your place, then I guess you would know him ?
By Maxthelion
#1526891
I really don't have a problem with overtaking in the circuit. If it's done safely, and I don't have to alter my position or plans to account for it, then I'm perfectly happy to be overtaken. I also don't give a rat's if someone joins the circuit in a non-standard way as long as it's announced and done safely. Life is too short to whinge about people jumping the queue if it has no effect on when I'm landing or my safety.
Barcli liked this
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By flyingeeza
#1526904
He obviously needed to get on the deck pronto.
He saw a gap, he went for it, he misjudged it, he advised, he avoided, he wasted some fuel, and then he landed safely.
So unless he overflew and upset a nearby nimby collective during his tight go-around, I'd say there's nothing further to discuss here.
By PeteM
#1526909
I rather like the strip I fly at. This sort of behaviour would result in a very direct chat with the owner around the side of the hangar. If it ever happened again, the 'gentleman' would not be allowed here again - ever!

Given the behaviour on local roads he very likely drives an Audi - badly, but that rather goes without saying!
townleyc, Terrye liked this
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By Ridders
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1526910
creweite wrote:Perhaps USA trained pilot where a left downwind entry is standard?
heresy :lol:
Now where is my popcorn :wink: