Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1519857
rf3flyer wrote:Cannot help with the video evidence you seek but if birds and aeroplanes were so inimical you have to wonder why airports have bird control officers.


And why do some airports use birds of prey to control the other birds?

We get quite a few Red Kites on the airfield at Wycombe/Booker and they do not seem to take any notice of the aircraft at all.

The there's the falconer down in Devon who flies his microlight in formation with his Golden Eagle
#1519861
There should be a "Presumption in Favour of Development" therefore taken literally development should happen unless it can be proven that there will be an impact. In this case there is only the suggestion.

I was a former town planner for a private consultant and had similar problems when looking at increasing the number of days a local motor racing circuit (Bishopscourt) could operate (Bishopscourt was a former RAF airfield and had a long history of motorsport on the site).

The planners refused to consider an extension due to impact on residents and wildlife (badgers) even though the badgers were fine with the racing on the 16 other days of the year, and most of the residents actually supported the development,. Those that didnt were "blow ins" who moved into the area and didnt like the racing circuit. I am not sure exactly what happened in the end as i left for another company.

Back to your initial question regarding birds. The RSPB have a bird sanctuary with hides etc within 700m of the runway centreline of Belfast City Airport (EGAC). Belfast Lough is also an ASSI.

https://www.rspb.org.uk/reserves-and-ev ... fastlough/

There is also Victoria Park at the approach to Runway 04 which on the Belfast City Council website is described as having a rich Diversity of Wildlife.

Then there is my home airfield (Newtownards EGAD) which is within Strangford Lough AONB. Strangford Lough is Northern Ireland’s first marine nature reserve and is the British Isles’ largest sea inlet, internationally renowned for its marine, plant and wildlife.

There is also Castle Espie (Castle Espie is a wetland reserve managed by the Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust on the banks of Strangford Lough) which is located aprrox 1 mile outside the Newtownards ATZ. http://www.wwt.org.uk/wetland-centres/castle-espie/

Hope that helps.
#1520073
This 2012 US government report s available for free download, and finds that military airfields are important hotspots for bird migration.

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRec ... =ADA571368

This book chapter will cost you £20 - the title looks promising, but you might want to google for book reviews before lashing out.

http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... 0-4504-2_1

I doubt that all the anecdotal evidence above will carry much weight with planning authorities, but official or academic studies (as someone previously said) should be helpful.
#1520195
Phew, thought it was another TCT thread, when I saw the title.

WRT OP It may be worth printing out such details as are pertinent..... " Councillor, have you actually looked outside, when you fly off on your annual holidays?"

"Have you actually asked the RSPB about threats posed by light Aviation "
IF there is a threat, why have they neglected their remit and not mounted a campaign to close the X 00 small airfields and strips in this country.

(Hint, Councillor specious and scaremongering baseless lies and misinformation could lead to the source finding themselves personally in an expensive Court case )

Why are bird populations increasing an and around Airfields

Take your flyer, and knock on each Councillor's door.... if no answer, be like the J. Ws...persistent re-visits until you corner the person who claims to represent YOU.
A brief chat with each, should give a good idea where the opposition lies....word your flier right and a lot will decide it's not worth laying themselves open to being personally liable for wasting others' time / money to support a fight in which they, personally have no stake.

As previously noted, this has a strong whiff of vendetta / axe-grinding about it.

If leafletting households in the area, the cost and selectivity of targeting are remarkably good and cost per 1,000 printed and delivered, not much different to an hour or so's Solicitor's bill.
#1520219
If leafletting households in the area, the cost and selectivity of targeting are remarkably good and cost per 1,000 printed and delivered, not much different to an hour or so's Solicitor's bill.


The strip is in the middle of nowhere. Barely a soul to leaflet!
#1520232
1. If its noise they are arguing scares birds, what is the noise output of the average light aircraft vs car/motorbike, and have there been any planning applications rejected due to the noise impact on wild birds? I

2. If its birds being scared by this big potential predator, maybe get a GA friendly RSPB contact to set them straight.. examples of birds coexisting happily with aircraft should be enough evidence they aren't scared.

3. If its collisions, you can easily work out the probabilities from the # aircraft movements and data from here https://www.caa.co.uk/Our-work/Make-a-r ... rdstrikes/
#1520248
A GA friendly RSPB contact would be good if I could find one. The RSPB wrote to the planners suggesting very expensive surveys would be required to prove no bird species would be affected!

After 4 planning inspectors ruled noise was not an issue, the planners are relying on the bird issue to refuse planning permission.

So, is there such a thing as a GA friendly RSPB contact?
#1520268
r_w_walker wrote:A GA friendly RSPB contact would be good if I could find one. The RSPB wrote to the planners suggesting very expensive surveys would be required to prove no bird species would be affected!

After 4 planning inspectors ruled noise was not an issue, the planners are relying on the bird issue to refuse planning permission.

So, is there such a thing as a GA friendly RSPB contact?


I'd be interested to know. RSPB and RSPCA are little better than snake oil salesmen in my experience. :evil:
#1520295
^^^^^^what he said !.........Which is why I suggested ask why, if there's such a risk, the RSPB are not doing their job (we all know, call their, and , yes, the RSPCA's bluff and they either admit to soliciting funds under false pretences (fraud ) OR they have nationwide experience of airstrips and propellor-shredded wildlife and birds do not present an issue important enough to devote resources to. ...yet another angle to push at the planners....these bodies have "free" money to protect the wildlife ... they're not doing it....why? there's NO threat!
#1520336
Brooklands wrote:The there's the falconer down in Devon who flies his microlight in formation with his Golden Eagle


Jonathan Marshall, a great chap. I've taken a course with him, and flown in the microlight but sadly it was a nil-wind day and Sampson the Golden Eagle wasn't going to play! We did fly him from the glove on the ground, along with Harris' Hawks and (the most impressive) peregrine falcons.

Sadly Sampson is no more - he was shot a few years ago. :( :evil:
#1520340
There's a wide-ranging academic study here:

http://www.fai.org/component/phocadownl ... s-on-birds

Which reports, among other things, that there may be less apparent effects caused by aircraft -- just because the birds don't jump about doesn't mean they aren't disturbed, and smaller clutch sizes may result for example.

It's noteworthy, though perhaps unsurprising, that small and noisy seems to be the worst -- model aircraft are particularly bad offenders.
#1520373
It's noteworthy, though perhaps unsurprising, that small and noisy seems to be the worst -- model aircraft are particularly bad offenders.
Is that perhaps, because models are nearer the size of a "real" bird?

There are several vids of Ornithopters on youtube, In at least one, a territorial bird has an agressive "go" at the Ornithopter to chase it away.......and the striking thing is the loud "squawking" noise these machines make when flapping their wings.
#1520379
r_w_walker wrote:Hi,


Latest refusal because it MIGHT affect protected birds.

I intend to appeal their latest decision but not for a couple of months.



I see that you are seeking evidence in relation to the interface between birds and airfields.

Please be vigilant in respect to the planning appeal rules regarding introducing 'new evidence'.

From what I see, the LA have said MIGHT, [but offer no supporting evidence :D ]
In my submission, that statement alone and by itself IS NOT grounds for a planning refusal.

If you need more info, please PM.
#1520403
Dave W wrote:
Brooklands wrote:The there's the falconer down in Devon who flies his microlight in formation with his Golden Eagle


Jonathan Marshall, a great chap. I've taken a course with him, and flown in the microlight but sadly it was a nil-wind day and Sampson the Golden Eagle wasn't going to play! We did fly him from the glove on the ground, along with Harris' Hawks and (the most impressive) peregrine falcons.

Sadly Sampson is no more - he was shot a few years ago. :( :evil:


Jonathan was/is certainly a personable chap. But there is a bit more to it than Sampson was shot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-30524910

In the meantime here's one I made last week. :-)

Image
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