Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Cessna57
#1519392
Hi all,

If you were doing some circuits after a few weeks without flying and you fancied practising a FL from downwind at an airfield with FISO's. What would your RT sound like.

I'm thinking this sounds reasonable.

G-XX ready for departure.

G-XX line up at your discretion

Lining up 24 for immediate departure, intend Fanstop late downwind and glide approach, G-XX.

I think this would be better than waiting until I'm up, but I can't help but feel I should request it before playing in the circuit, but I'm aware it's in the air, so not really in a FISO's jurisdiction.

When training my FI would regularly call fan stops and pull the throttle without talking to anyone first.

Back to my scenario

I'd then make my downwind call

G-XX downwind 24, full stop, Fanstop late downwind and glide approach.

I'd then call when I pulled the throttle.

G-XX fanstop, late downwind 24, PFL

and then do a lovely glide approach, with flaps if I needed them, to 24

Overkill? Just talk to tower first before flying ? Mention it when checking out on the radio, then just call it in the air ?

Main intention : not to annoy people at DX.

Interested in your thoughts and if anyone ever does PFL's from the circuit.
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By PeteSpencer
#1519394
For absolute clarity I'd insert 'practice' in there some where. (yes I know but practice needs emphasising IMHO)

Further thought: would you intend to remain within the airfield boundary for all this?

If not your glide approach, if you need for whatever reason to tighten it , might well take you over Duxford village/the school which is a bit of a no-no...

Alan will be along in a minute....
Last edited by PeteSpencer on Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By matthew_w100
#1519396
I thought "fanstop" was a code word known only to ATC and skygod instructors, used so that we ordinary pilots don't get an advance warning.
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By Talkdownman
#1519398
Highland Park wrote:Isn't "fan stop" a practice EFATO anyway and therefore you don't need to say "practice"?

Correct.

FANSTOP meaning from CAP413 Page 10:
I am initiating a practice engine failure after take off. (Used only by pilots of single engine aircraft.)
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By Talkdownman
#1519402
Cessna57 wrote:Overkill? Just talk to tower first before flying ? Mention it when checking out on the radio, then just call it in the air ?

If ATC, it could compromise control of traffic, so pre-arrange it.
If AFIS or AGCS, just do it. If you have overlooked traffic ahead you will simply have to abandon it and try again another time. FANSTOP affords no priority.
By Brad2523
#1519414
I'm planning on practising the same thing from DX so glad you asked - I was just going to pop my head in the tower first to let them know and then make similar calls to what you have posted above.

In regards to Duxford village, in the January flying orders it says that there can be no EFATO practise if using runway 06.
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By Brad2523
#1519418
The section of the flying orders:


"3.6 Practice Engine Failure After Take off - Runway 24
Practice engine failures are permitted on runway 24, provided that the aircraft’s track during the simulated emergency is over a clear area. The FISO is to be informed prior to take-off of the intention to practice an engine failure. ‘Practice’ and ‘Climbing Away’ calls must be made at start and end of EFATO practice. Practice engine failures on Runway 06 are not permitted."
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By MarkOlding
#1519422
Plus 1 for only saying on down wind "G-XX downwind for glide approach"

Did some yesterday with my instructor (at WW) and he was happy with the phraseology.

We also did an EFATO which was called in before take off and then safe climb away acknowledged so they wouldn't come looking.
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By Gertie
#1519427
A glide approach is just a normal approach. Saying what you're planning in the downwind call does, I suppose, tell people that you won't necessarily be flying a normal rectangular base leg. (If I'm flying circuits and doing a different thing each time around I do usually say what I'm doing each time in the downwind call, reduces pretty well to zero the number of times I get cleared to do the wrong thing on the wrong runway and have to sort it out on short final.)

At Cambridge the practice FL to land is usually done from 1,500' so there's a "request climb for high glide" call just after take-off and "high downwind" instead of "downwind".
By Brad2523
#1519433
Talkdownman wrote:
Brad2523 wrote:The FISO is to be informed prior to take-off of the intention to practice an engine failure

Why?


I don't write the flying orders, I just have to read them, agree to them and sign them if I want to fly out of Duxford... It's their airfield so I play by their rules. They are clear that if you break their rules they will kick you off the based pilots list. I know it is strictly enforced as well.

The effort of popping your head in the tower to mention what you would like to do compared to the effort of having to re-apply to the based pilots list when they boot you out for ignoring their orders is minimal.... So that's what I will do and would advise anyone else flying from DX to do!

Edited to add: The guys in the tower are very friendly and will let you know if there are any going's on that may be handy to know about... They are very accommodating so I always pop my head in regardless to what I'm doing just so they know what I'm up to.
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By ianfallon
#1519435
Yes - "glide approach" indicates you're likely to be flying a tighter base leg and maybe more likely to be going around.

I imagine they have had experience of real EFATO and are diligent enough to be looking out for it and getting read to scramble help. I would imagine a call on the radio (as part of the taxi/radio check call) would work just as well as a tower visit and sounds reasonable, although part of the instruction was the surprise element of it (by the instructor on the student) - announcing it would rather spoil that.