Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By T67M
#1515727
GTX330 to 330ES upgrade cost £1200.

GTX330 trade in value £1000 against an AXP340 new price £2200 makes that cost of AXP340 effectively £1200 (ie the same as the Garmin upgrade), and the AXP comes with warranty (which the ES upgrade doesn't), and it works with the IFD440 (which the 330ES apparently doesn't).

Installation/modification cost is lost in the noise as we're doing a major panel refit anyway (SL30->IFD440, KX155->TY96, KMA24->GMA350c, GTX330->AXP340, adding an ELT406) to comply with the 8.33 mandate, add ADS-B, add LPV capability, and add an ELT. Panel space is limited preventing the installation of a second Nav/Com sadly, although Trig do keep promising a slimline (semi-TY96 compatible) NavCom which we may swap in later.
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By wigglyamp
#1515733
T67M wrote:GTX330 to 330ES upgrade cost £1200.

GTX330 trade in value £1000 against an AXP340 new price £2200 makes that cost of AXP340 effectively £1200 (ie the same as the Garmin upgrade), and the AXP comes with warranty (which the ES upgrade doesn't), and it works with the IFD440 (which the 330ES apparently doesn't).

Installation/modification cost is lost in the noise as we're doing a major panel refit anyway (SL30->IFD440, KX155->TY96, KMA24->GMA350c, GTX330->AXP340, adding an ELT406) to comply with the 8.33 mandate, add ADS-B, add LPV capability, and add an ELT. Panel space is limited preventing the installation of a second Nav/Com sadly, although Trig do keep promising a slimline (semi-TY96 compatible) NavCom which we may swap in later.


Makes more sense now with the trade-in.
How is the ADS-B OUT being certified? There's no current EASA validation of Avidyne's FAA STC which is required for a compliant system - CS-STAN can't be used in this instance.
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By Rod1
#1515753
Our instalation is also in a 1050, visability is fine and we have it high in the panal.

"Will be fitting a Garmin GTX 328 mode S transponder at the same time."

NO NO :(

This is not ADS-b capable - over the next few years this will becom a big pain. Almost any other transponder will do ADS-b out. Why did you pick the 320 and can we talk you out of it. :wink:

Rod1
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By Kemble Pitts
#1515789
GTX328 cost us £200.

As ADS-B out is not mandatory (nor is Mode S for that matter), and I have no desire for even elementary Mode S, it seemed a good compromise solution given the price.

We only have a Mode A at the moment and I didn't want to re-jig the panel for the new comms radio and still have the scabby Mode A staring at me.

Also continental touring is likely to be easier with elementary Mode S than with Mode A.

Views?
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By Marvin
#1515791
Ads- b is not mandatory but it will improve you visibility to others using electronic conspicuity devices.

By 2020 all Commercial air transport will be ads-b equipped so there is likely to be an increasing use of ads-b for collision avoidance and obviously the associated ground networks.

If your upgrading then adding an elementary mode-S transponder with ads- b capability is, in my view, a very sensible addition for not much diff, if any, in cost.

The trig elementary transponders offer it as standard and provide you feed with with a gps source will broadcast your position so others can see, and avoid, you.
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By T67M
#1515798
Every rung on the Mode A to C to S to S-ES to ADS-B ladder is worthwhile - but as the cost of fitting (at least on CofA aircraft) is often greater than the difference in the cost of the equipment, jumping several rungs at once usually works out cheaper in the long run than climbing one step at a time. That said, if you really did pick up the GTX328 for just £200 then the economics may work out differently, however I would ask myself why the '328 was so cheap - my suggestion is because it's so limited in functionality that nobody else wanted it.

I am reading between the lines a bit, but it sounds like you're upgrading from Mode A to Mode A/S(no-alt) which is a very unusual combination. If you're not adding an altitude encoder to your Mode-A installation, you won't get access to any more airspace (or easier touring) with Mode S(no-alt) than you had with Mode A. Adding the encoder to any Mode S-capable transponder will also give you Mode C as well.

The big advantage of upgrading to ADS-B out is that receivers are now available cheaply which will allow other pilots to see you electronically, even if you don't want a screen/audio alert in your own aircraft. Some of those receivers will also connect to a Mode S-ES transponder (but not a '328) to give it ADS-B out capabilities, subject to certification requirements.
By Kemble Pitts
#1515802
If starting from nought I would agree with you (Marvin) but the GTX 328 is, now, zero cost to me as I have it sitting in the cupboard (and at £200 it was pretty cheap anyhow).
T67, we will be fitting an encoding altimeter as well so also adding the Mode C function; that came free with the transponder from a friend who is rebuilding and upgrading his aircraft after badly damaging it on take off.

The new radio fit will cost be about £2.5k all in, including installing the already-owned GTX 328. Overall it would be more like double that if I wanted to purchase another transponder.

I have no great desire for 8.33kHz radios or a new transponder and the aeroplane is only worth £20k max. so I'm making a cost-balanced choice.

It is only a day/VFR aeroplane (as is the pilot) and I'm not looking to extend that.
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By T67M
#1515806
Good to hear that you got the altitude encoder as well - at least this means your '328 will give you Modes A, C and S. Given the price you paid for the '328, I can see and understand your logic, it's just not the option I would have personally chosen given the potential for adding traffic alerting (out and/or in) that would have been possible by coupling a GPS (TN70, PilotAware, ...) to an ADS-B transponder (GTX330ES, TT21 or similar). The '328 has effectively blocked that route for you.
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By Marvin
#1515809
KP now I understand your reasoning although personally I think that not having the ads-b obtion is restricting what you may want to do in the future.

At least with the mode - S and altitude encode then there is a significant step up from mode a only.

Hope you've found this thread useful. :)
By Kemble Pitts
#1515815
Extremely useful, thanks

Given the fairly good and equal feedback on all of the radio options that I'm looking at I am tending towards the new Funke ATR833S pointed out by Patowalker.

These radios all seem to be pretty well received (no pun intended) and so its likely to come down to raw unit cost, they all seem much of a muchness.

Any more feedback on the user interfaces would be good.
By riverrock
#1515832
We have an ATR833 (OLED) and have had issues with it- returned twice to the manufacturer, with a "problem no one else had" although I found someone else with an identical issue (Low batt warning coming on, meaning it no-longer transmitted at normal power). I believe that it was an issue with one of the mounting screws fouling a circuit board. Fixed and haven't had an issue since.
We don't use the memory or intercom, and have it set on 25kHz mode so I don't know how fiddly its going to be once we have to change.
So not really much help in your decision!
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By Flying_john
#1516110
Our Funke 833 was posted back to them today with the same (I think) fault. BAT on the display after being on for a few mins.

Its supposed to indicate low input voltage, but I monitored it on a voltmeter and it doenst go lower than 12 volts, but still it says BAT and stops working.

I am expecting them to charge us their standard repair charge because we had it a while before install and so technically out of g'tee, but its only been fitted for 4 months :-((
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By nickwilcock
#1516164
' I believe that it was an issue with one of the mounting screws fouling a circuit board. Fixed and haven't had an issue since.'

From the user manual:

'No screws may be turned in more than max. 15mm into the device – even if no hard limit is noticeable!'

Hopefully whoever did your install read that?