[SteveC]

I am led to believe and do stand to be corrected that the reason he was flying was to collect more pilots to position another aircraft. I can't verify the accuracy of that but it could explain the decision to fly rather than drive.

[maxalpha]

Correct information Steve, supposed to pick up 2 pilots go to Gamston so they could collect the company Kingair and return to Chalgrove, Pa30 would return to Turweston

[Iceman]

A classic CFIT in poor weather conditions by the look of it. See page 34 of the AAIB report.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati%20...%20tober-2017

Iceman

[oldbiggincfi]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... tober-2017

Page not found ?

[Dominie]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati%20...%20tober-2017

Page not found ?

Try https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 0-2017.pdf

[Lefty]

The twincomm fatal accident strikes me as one of the strangest and most difficult to understand.

We have a very experienced pilot in an aircraft that he knew well and was fairly well equipped. Yet he sems to have become disoriented and failed to make the transition from VFR to IFR.

To find Chalgrove, he only had to either
a) use the OBS function on his GNS 430 and dial in a 180 inbound track, or
b) even simpler, dial up the BENSON r/w 19 ILS - which crosses right over Chalgrove at 3 DME. it could hardly be easier. So sad.

[gaznav]

Not really a mystery for me Lefty. It was a very marginal day to attempt a VMC transit to pick up someone from an airfield near to a high piece of ground and associated TV mast. Yes, a 500ft AGL transit was just about possible if everything went right. However, obviously it didn’t and the pilot ended flying around below MSA in cloud near a high piece of ground possibly under pressure to keep a promise to the passenger.

Very sad news indeed and there are many that have fallen into the same trap - experienced or not. It could have been so much worse if the aircraft had come down just hundreds of metres West onto a busy M40. A fact that is often lost in tragedies like this is that we need to fly at or above MSA in IMC not only for our own safety but for the safety of others.

RIP

[Lefty]

But if he had accepted that he was IFR, he could have completed the enroute section at above the MSA, then fly the Benson ILS as a cloud break. This would have put him right overhead Chalgrove at about 1000’, which would have almost certainly been VMC. Not great VMC, but in all probability perfectly acceptable. If not - he could have continued down the ILS.

Benson are also a LARS provider, yet it would appear from the report that he never spoke to them. Why not ask for their assistance ?

[johnm]

Does Benson function at weekends?

[Balliol]

Think it was a weekend so Benson zone closed, Tower only at weekends for Tutor ops and I seem to recall we had scrubbed due weather forecast as it was looking rubbish all day.

[Lefty]

Think it was a weekend so Benson zone closed, Tower only at weekends for Tutor ops and I seem to recall we had scrubbed due weather forecast as it was looking rubbish all day.

But
a) the ILS would still be on, and
b) Brize Norton would have been working and their radar will easily cover well east of Chalgrove.

[Talkdownman]

Benson are also a LARS provider

There's no mention of that in the UK IAIP.

[Lefty]

Benson are also a LARS provider

There's no mention of that in the UK IAIP.

Must be a bunch hoaxers then, whoever it is that give me a LARS / Radar service Monday - Friday, and occasionally on weekends.

They are frequently operational at weekends so we never transit that area without calling them.

[A le Ron]

I'm with Lefty on this one. If he was caught out misjudging the weather, and decided to press on rather than turn back, even in poor VMC rather than IMC, he could have dialled in the runway heading on the obs on the 430 to aid situational awareness and position onto the centreline for a near standard approach. I wonder why he orbited away from Chalgrove?

[Iceman]

Using the OBS mode to dial in a runway heading would necessitate that the pilot had Chalgrove in as a user waypoint (it's not going to be in the normal database as Chalgrove has no conventional instrument approach). I'm surprised that the AAIB report makes no mention of trying to extract this information from the 430 user waypoint store in order to see whether or not Chalgrove would have been displayed on the screen and an OBS approach possible.

Iceman