Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Lockhaven
#1588501
Trent772 wrote:This is almost as good as 'what primer do you use?' on the RV forums :mrgreen:

Modern multigrade and all oils which have the Lycoming recommended additive in are fine. Camguard will, does, maybe provide more protection to Lycomings, however the most important thing with these engines is regular use and regular oil changes.

Let us split this into two - Lycomings suffer from camshaft dryness, Continentals can suffer sticky valves. Both can benefit with regular oil changes. Camguard can help on Lycomings for dryness, Marvel Mystery Oil or Redex in the fuel can certainly help the smaller Continentals with sticky valves.

By regular use, I mean fly it, don't ground run it. Ground running will not get the oil to boil off the moisture and you will roast your back cylinders because of lack of airflow. Fly it, even if it is just 30 mins of circuit bashing. We fly for fun, so have some fun !

Regular oil changes - this means calendar as well as hours. Our engines are dinosaurs, they were developed as ditch pumps and tractor engines back in the 30's and not much has evolved since. That means woefully low compression ratios, lots of piston blow by and acidification of the oil. Our fuel contains lead which gets trapped as salts in the oil which also adds to the problem. The answer is really simple, schedule a calendar or hours based oil change system. Every 4 months or 25 hours in low use aeroplanes. As owner, you can do it yourself as permitted maintenance and you don't necessarily need to change the filter - it is the nasty products in the oil you are after. Filter at 50 or annual, oil every 25 hours or 4 months. Cost - about £35 - 80 using one of the usual suppliers.


100% agree with all of the above.
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By Flying_john
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1588574
The Lycoming "guru" at Oshkosh, who was stripping down and then rebuilding an 0-320 said to me after some other questions and the question would he reccomend the use of Camguard, that he couldn't do that as a Lycoming representative, but he went on to explain that it would do no harm and rather than working on the "stickiness" principle that I thought ,actually left a micron thin phospation layer on exposed parts, like the cam. This protected it from moisture until the next start which immediatly removed the phospate coating.
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By defcribed
#1589058
From my days rebuilding vintage car engines, I seem to recall that the best thing you could do for your camshaft was to keep it running up at 2,000 rpm or so for 10 minutes when you first start up an engine with a new cam.

It seemed to be understood that running at idle, with the associated long 'under spring pressure' times, was not good for brand new lobes.
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By Trent772
#1589085
Problem for Lycomings is the location of the camshaft - at the top of the engine. It runs dry very easily, gets all the moisture from combustion products and doesn't have an easy life.

Continental cam is buried and doesn't suffer as much. That said, they suffer from sticky valves, so swings and roundabouts I guess.

Bit of a design boo boo by Lycoming, but as originally designed, maybe not envisaged for final use :?:

Reference initial running speed, please, please, please keep your aeroplane engine to around 1,000 rpm or so for the first couple of minutes after start. It allows for the cylinders to expand and stabilise, the oil to swill around and everything to clatter together again :thumleft:

Oh, and for those who run turbo's, (thread drift) - especially at northern local aerodromes, if you shut it down that quickly after landing, you will be visiting the engine shop even more often :pirat:
By Red
#1872830
Hmm, I expect the ingredients are a closely guarded secret and nobody know whether the less expensive Automotive Camguard is exactly the same stuff with a different label
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1872846
I would be very surprised if they are the same. The fuel and oil chemistry is different between automotive and aviation engines and they are certified to different standards (aviation version SAE-1899).

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... autocs.php
Q: What is the difference between the automotive Camguard and the aviation Camguard?
Automotive: Have supplemental anti-ware, works with little amount of zinc. Mainly put in older engines. Contains friction modifiers. Fuel economy boost. Different deposit control than aviation. Not for diesel.

Aviation: Nationalist product, different anti-ware properties, stand-alone anti-ware package, no friction modifiers, different deposit control than automotive, higher concentration of rust inhibitor, more rust protection.
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By TheFarmer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1872882
Jonzarno wrote:It is quite widely used in the Cirrus community (Continental engines) with good results.


I don't really consider frequent engine failures and chute pulls a good result! :D
By Red
#1872946
riverrock wrote:I would be very surprised if they are the same. The fuel and oil chemistry is different between automotive and aviation engines and they are certified to different standards (aviation version SAE-1899).

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... autocs.php
Q: What is the difference between the automotive Camguard and the aviation Camguard?
Automotive: Have supplemental anti-ware, works with little amount of zinc. Mainly put in older engines. Contains friction modifiers. Fuel economy boost. Different deposit control than aviation. Not for diesel.

Aviation: Nationalist product, different anti-ware properties, stand-alone anti-ware package, no friction modifiers, different deposit control than automotive, higher concentration of rust inhibitor, more rust protection.


:lol:
By PA28
#1872961
I use CamGuard in my Twin Comanche. The oil consumption reduced to approximately 1 quart every 20hrs. Friends of mine also use it and have their oil sent for analysis at Blackstones. They have had positive results too. As said previously there is no substitute to regular flying and frequent oil changes. Oil is cheap and engines are expensive.