[Irv Lee]

Oh, Mic not Mick...? After all these years, I now understand how they eventually landed ok

[JWL]

Voted

**** me, I thought I was analytical

[Flyin'Dutch']

Would be interesting to know whether the 9 folks who have voted that they don't use a removable GPS, use a GPS at all for longer cross countries.

[malcolmfrost]

Do they even leave the circuit or local flying area?

[JWL]

Do they even leave the circuit or local flying area?

Good question, when I learnt I spent the first 12 months flying from Oxford to Oxford, no GPS but known landmarks. No wonder I gave up flying!

ETA I did move on after that with some touring without GPS (removable or otherwise) Never went too far from a VOR though

[lobstaboy]

Would be interesting to know whether the 9 folks who have voted that they don't use a removable GPS, use a GPS at all for longer cross countries.

Im one of the nine. I use a removable GPS, but its not a moving map - numbers and a pointer. Basically navigate by a mix of dead reckoning and visual reference points, with the GPS as a fall back/check. The idea is always to know where I am without the GPS.

Quite happy on 2 hour cross countries like that. And its what I teach my students to be able to do once they have qualified (but I'm sure most just buy SD and follow the line).

[lobstaboy]

Do they even leave the circuit or local flying area?

Cheek!

But seriously, it worries me when I do bienniels how many folk cant find their way back to base from say 20 minutes away without reference to a GPS. They should know the local area blindfold, figuratively speaking.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Doesn't that depend a bit on there total time pent in the area plus a bit of recency?

[JWL]

Do they even leave the circuit or local flying area?

Cheek!

But seriously, it worries me when I do bienniels how many folk cant find their way back to base from say 20 minutes away without reference to a GPS. They should know the local area blindfold, figuratively speaking.

In life, the human body is programmed to forget what it doesn't use unless you practice it regularly or (eventually) become unconscious competent.

GPS (rightly or wrongly) helps degenerate pilotage and DR skills.

Being of middle age, I try to straddle both horses, probably doing both badly, but the future is tech whether we like it or not.

[lobstaboy]

Doesn't that depend a bit on there total time pent in the area plus a bit of recency?

Er, yes of course. But I think if someone struggles with it then they should make it a priority to learn the local area better.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Why?

If I start flying from a new base I don't particularly see the need to drill some holes in the sky just so I can get to know the nearest 2500 sqm for the sake of it before starting to fly from A to B.

It will automatically become familiar in the fullness of time.

[johnm]

Doesn't that depend a bit on there total time pent in the area plus a bit of recency?

Er, yes of course. But I think if someone struggles with it then they should make it a priority to learn the local area better.

That's nuts, pilots should be capable of following a reliable process to get to anywhere they choose, flying by learning landmarks and their relationship to each other is a very limiting approach.

[lobstaboy]

Yes of course, I'm not advocating solely using landmarks. Where did I say that?

I'm talking about folk on a bienniel flight with a PFL and some other exercises a few miles from base who cant find their way back without the GPS. In other words their skills have deteriorated to such an extent that they wouldn't be able to pass a GST if they took one.

But this is a bit off topic, apologies.

[lobstaboy]

... the future is tech whether we like it or not.

Agreed. And so I think its important for instruction to cover the basics of good navigation using a mix of methods. With the current status of the tools at our disposal what I try to get people to do as a minimum is:

to plan your cross country on the map with good visual reference points as if you were going to fly it old school without the GPS. That way you'll have a good idea of features and airspace, and a route that you can follow if the tech lets you down. Then put that route in the GPS, rather than just a straight point to point line.

Doing this gives a level of confidence that enables folk to spend more time looking outside.

[Paul_Sengupta]

But seriously, it worries me when I do bienniels how many folk cant find their way back to base from say 20 minutes away without reference to a GPS. They should know the local area blindfold, figuratively speaking.

20 minutes away covers quite an area. While I could start from a known point and find my way back, if you put me somewhere random, 20 mins away, and all I could see was fields, I'd have no clue.

I'd probably be ok if you started me over Didcot Power Station.