Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Rob P
#1895498
Rob P wrote:I'm idly wondering what a 172 costs for 100 hours fuel and oil.

Paul_Sengupta wrote:I'd guess roughly about £7k.

Which would carry it about 12,000 nm. Whilst the RV-10 will have travelled some 17,000 nm.

Not a great deal to choose really.

Rob P
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895502
Rob P wrote:Which would carry it about 12,000 nm. Whilst the RV-10 will have travelled some 17,000 nm.

Not a great deal to choose really.


The fuel burn will be roughly 50% higher in the RV-10.

I also think you're overestimating the speed of the Cessna, I'd go with 10,000nm.
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By Oldfart
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895508
Re an RV10. Try getting one of those passed the LAA!
I passed a local hanger recently, and admired a nearly new, beautifully turned out N reg RV10. I was told by a local pilot, it was apparently imported some months ago, having been ferried trouble free on standard tankage across the Atlantic.
Still in bits battling to get on the G Reg!!

I fly a Group owned C182Q. If you think too much about costs, its probably not a good idea! One of the group says though, his daughters horse upkeep costs more.
Last edited by Oldfart on Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
By L21B
#1895510
I am a private, sole owner of a Reims-built C150.

I don’t recognise some of the cost claims of running a Cessna that have been quoted on this thread.

My fixed costs are about £600/yr for insurance (2 named pilots/airframe insured for £30k), £800/yr for outside parking and about £3500k for annual/ARC (completed together) and 50hr check once a year.

I have previously had shares in LAA taildraggers and a VP/retractable C of A aircraft.

Naturally, the C150 is limited as to what it can achieve, compared to the above, but I love it.

- as a Reims Cessna it is corrosion proofed since build. No problems parking outside with a decent cover on it

- all taildraggers need to be hangared. As previously mentioned, hangarage is generally expensive. I would love a taildragger but don’t have access to low cost hangarage.

- the Cessna cost me a fraction to acquire compared to other 2-seaters (particularly other, comparable, LAA two-seaters)

- even at current rates, it costs me about £40/hr in fuel. Not as good as some modern things that burn £20/hr in fuel - but the modern things generally cost £80k+ to acquire

- I believe the Cessna will be more likely to maintain it’s value compared to equivalent two seaters that are currently 4 times as expensive

- the C150 has doubled in value since I bought it a few years ago (first time that I have seen any profit on an airframe in 30 years of aircraft ownership)

- I strongly recommend not hiring out your aircraft. I leased to a flying club and the extra cost and damage was unacceptable (ripped aircraft cover that had been left off overnight, broken mixture control that had been twisted by someone who thought it was a Vernier control - it wasn’t!, aircraft key left on top of the instrument panel overnight, not nearly as many hours flown as initially promised/discussed etc).

I have no need to take more than one passenger and my aerobatic days are behind me.

I have found it to be the easiest aircraft to run, on a private basis, as I have an excellent maintenance organisation and the parts are relatively easy to come by. The O200 engine is a common engine that is very reliable and it starts first time without the danger of hand-swinging (which I have done many times in the past), Check carb heat regularly and you won’t have any problems.

Every car that I have owned over the last 30 years has been a ‘keeper’ and completed at least 120000 miles. This has allowed me extra funds to operate my little Cessna.

I would suggest that running my Cessna costs no more than changing an average car every three years (with the associated depreciation) and provided the costs are controlled.

As I said, I love my Cessna 150.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895512
Oldfart wrote:Re an RV10. Try getting one of those passed the LAA!

There are several on the G reg already, including a fine example built by a forumite.

Potential difficulties relating to an imported N reg experimental are applicable to any type, and there is quite a bit of material (including a Tech Leaflet) on the LAA website identifying the caution needed. Been there for many years.

It's not an RV10-specific issue.
By A4 Pacific
#1895549
L21B

I would love a taildragger but don’t have access to low cost hangarage.


Make a tidy profit selling your Cessna 150. Buy a Cessna 120 on a permit at half the price. The savings you’ll make on your ARC/Annual will pay for fabulous hangarage anywhere in the country.
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895558
Ibra wrote:Are there that many 4 seat RV10s on LAA PtF? I saw some on CAA PFA and some on LAA PTF, any reason why they are split?


No split. There are 18 of them, 17 LAA and one imported from the US awaiting LAA approval. Some may still be uinder construction. Seven were registered before the PFA (Popular Flying Association) became the LAA on 1/1/2008.
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By L21B
#1895561
A4 Pacific wrote:L21B

I would love a taildragger but don’t have access to low cost hangarage.


Make a tidy profit selling your Cessna 150. Buy a Cessna 120 on a permit at half the price. The savings you’ll make on your ARC/Annual will pay for fabulous hangarage anywhere in the country.



No, thanks

I am a Luscombe man, if I had a choice - trouble is, a decent Luscombe goes for about £30k these days.

The savings from the maintenance costs would not cover the cost of decent hangarage in this part of the world.
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By Rob P
#1895567
L21B wrote: all taildraggers need to be hangared.

That's a massive generalisation, and by no means correct.

Before I bought it, XB (my RV-6) lived out quite happily at Goodwood for a few years, with just a cockpit cover. The paint lost a lot of its shine, but then that isn't tailwheel related. Meticulous annual LAA inspections since then reveal no corrosion in evidence.

L21B wrote: the C150 has doubled in value since I bought it a few years ago (first time that I have seen any profit on an airframe in 30 years of aircraft ownership)

As has XB. Bought for £37,000 in 2014, currently insured at £80,000 which may be a little conservative

Rob P
By A4 Pacific
#1895618
L21B

No, thanks

I am a Luscombe man, if I had a choice - trouble is, a decent Luscombe goes for about £30k these days.


Ah yes, the Mighty Luscombe. Lovely aeroplane. A design later perfected by Clyde Cessna’s team into the Cessna 120/140, which with the addition of a training wheel at the front, (for the nervous flyers amongst us!) became the highly successful aeroplane you love today, and the foundation of the now ubiquitous Cessna brand! :thumright: :D
By PA28
#1895635
lobstaboy wrote:I'm getting worried now - well into four pages and nobody has talked about 'mission' yet...
Is the forum losing its bite?

I agree. Big difference between C150/C152 and a C172. How many people do you want to carry, how far? C172 is really only a 3 seater with approximately 120L or 2 adults and 2 children.
C172 will be more expensive to buy but a better all round aeroplane but burns 32-35L/hr. Maintenance will be roughly the same provided the aeroplanes are 'sorted'. Expect the first annual to be expensive if the aeroplane has been neglected by the previous owner and hasn't flown many hours recently.
Always get a pre purchase inspection done by the engineer who is likely to maintain it. Engines and avionics are the expensive bits.
You can't put a price on having the flexibility to decide it's a nice day let's going flying. Sole ownership is great but expensive. Remember if you buy something outright you can always form a group around it should it get too expensive.
Good luck.
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By defcribed
#1895641
IO390 wrote:One thing to bear in mind:

You've already had the "permit aircraft are cheaper to maintain" line. That's only true because permit aircraft owners do the work themselves. You can operate a certified aircraft for a lot less than you might think if you are closely involved in the maintenance, as you would be on a permit aircraft.


In theory yes, in reality it's unlikely.

To replicate the permit scenario you need to find a maintenance outfit that is happy for you to do a lot of the work yourself, for you to make most of the decisions about what gets done vs what doesn't, and still put their name to it at the end of each 50hr and annual. You won't find many in the UK happy to operate like that, simply because it means less revenue for the same responsibility.

I'm not saying someone couldn't get lucky and establish this sort of scenario, just that it's sufficiently unlikely to be a poor basis on which to do the financial planning around ownership.

Like it or not, certified light GA maintenance (on a G-reg) in this country is fairly effectively sewn-up, and before we left it was EASA that cemented it. Over on EuroGA a few usual suspects elsewhere in Europe constantly state that XYZ is possible under EASA, but the reality on the ground is generally very different.
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By Gordon Freeman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895652
I guess cost has to be a significant factor in aircraft ownership, but, for me, there are a great number of benefits to ownership aside from the obvious utility provided by having your own aeroplane. I like the "owning" bit because I feel proud to own my own machine when I'm just an ordinary bloke, especially as I built it 25 years ago. I love maintaining it, I like polishing it, I like the smell of it, that heady mix of petrol, oil, polish, leather, and when combined with the aroma of freshly cut grass, it's aromatic nirvana.

I like to own beatiful things. I love the opportunism of seeing sunshine and blue skies then go flying at a minutes' notice, no booking up, no "flight checks" required. I can't afford to fly in all honesty, and never have been able to, but that's never stopped me yet.

And when, one summers afternoon, perhaps returning from a day in the west country, I gaze down on the green Sussex countryside, and notice the sunshine twinkling on the wingtip as I bank it over, I'm the richest man in the world. 8)
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