Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By StratoTramp
#1883877
@lobstaboy @CloudHound Interesting points. Knew it was Too good to be true! No that I have any hope of affording a JMB. But would have been nice to consider a share.
By patowalker
#1883932
The Czech LAA and DULV first met in Prague way back in October 2017 to agree the harmonisation of the 600kg ultralight certification process, based on Czech UL 2 and German LTF rules. That must be the certification the CAA is referring to.

https://en.laacr.cz/most-important-outputs.htm
https://jmbaircraft.com/newsroom/2019/6 ... -club-e-v/
https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/blog ... hafen-2-2/
By Red
#1884479
lobstaboy wrote:
CloudHound wrote:The CAA appear to have backpedalled on their original enthusiasm for the new 600kg microlight class....

...Now the CAA are about to publish requirements which I'm told will require full Design Organisation and Manufacturing approval followed by certification of the aircraft. BMAA and LAA would then be able to approve subsequent changes.

Guess what? JMB has walked away from the UK market.


As I (and others) have said all along, the 600kg thing is not an exercise in giving greater choice to the flying community. It's primary aim is to give a business boost to a small number of existing UK companies.
I'm old enough to have seen this happen before in other industries that I've been working in. The inevitable result is what @CloudHound points out - the UK customer suffers because the best products never make it into the UK because the manufacturer CBA to do all the work needed to access what is to them a small bit of extra market.


Always been my take on it too
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By G-BLEW
#1884545
patowalker wrote:I hope we don't get a bunch of questions tomorrow that could be avoided by reading CAP 2163.

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CA ... 202021.pdf


Initially there'll be a recap of the current situation, so pretty much guarantee that you'll get some. Starting off with the premise that everyone watching will have read the CAP would be a mistake IMHO

Feel free to send me any questions, or put them in the comments and I'll see what I can do

Ian
By patowalker
#1884572
It is obvious from posts on here that some pilots have unrealistic expectations of what the new category will deliver. If reading CAP 2163 is too much to expect, the chapter on importing new types might be of interest.

Certifying and importing new types or variants into the UK
4.8 Despite the effort to incorporate common elements, some key differences will remain between BCAR Section S and the other certification bases. Manufacturers looking to certify a new factory-built microlight aeroplane type or variant in the UK must apply to the CAA as they do currently for type approval against a certification basis, either BCAR Section S, CS-LSA, CS-VLA or a national ultralight code. The CAA will review the design and agree with the manufacturer Special Conditions (additions) to create a bridging standard between the certification basis used and BCAR Section S.
4.9 For amateur-built microlights, applicants would follow a similar process, and work with the LAA or BMAA towards Type Acceptance.
4.10 Individuals intending to import a microlight aeroplane into the UK will need to check that the type or variant has been approved or accepted in the UK and that it meets a recognised microlight aeroplane certification basis (either BCAR Section S or another code with Special Conditions). The aircraft would then need to be added to the UK register.26 Note also that if the type or variant has been accepted as an amateur/kit-built aircraft, it cannot automatically be accepted also as a factory-built or vice versa. A similar process must be followed.
Design & production standards
4.11 Factory-built microlights operating in the UK market must also comply with BCAR Section A, and organisations looking to provide microlight aeroplanes into the UK market must hold an approval under Chapter A8-1.27 Although considerably less onerous than EASA Part-21, these do set minimum standards to ensure an acceptable level of safety which is also highly regarded internationally. 4.12 Manufacturers accessing the UK market will require A8-1 approval themselves, but any EASA or national design and production approvals will be credited in the application. Please contact us for applications for A8-1 approval.
4.13 We are developing a list of known differences between BCAR A8-1 and national design and production codes in other jurisdictions.


I have no questions at this point, but that could change during the interview.
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By Pete L
#1884576
If we own a permanent permit to fly LSA, do we get a choice as to whether it becomes a microlight or not?

Is the CAA doing anything about the EU decision to no longer recognize permanent permits to fly for UK aircraft - even though the Form 18B specifies the airframe rather than the state of registration.
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By CloudHound
#1884605
One problem I have is what the CAA were saying end of 2019/start of 2021 which had the effect of raising expectations.

Those were clear enough and in writing to tempt one manufacturer to commence a dialogue (through me) with the LAA.

The CAP published in August and subsequent conversations have rowed back on what was originally indicated.
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By G-BLEW
#1884620
patowalker wrote:It is obvious from posts on here that some pilots have unrealistic expectations of what the new category will deliver


Maybe. I think some (myself included) had hopes of what it could deliver, but not unrealistic expectations of what it will deliver.

Ian
By russp
#1884623
G-BLEW wrote:
patowalker wrote:It is obvious from posts on here that some pilots have unrealistic expectations of what the new category will deliver


Maybe. I think some (myself included) had hopes of what it could deliver, but not unrealistic expectations of what it will deliver.

Ian


Sadly it appears that it was quite unrealistic to expect that we'd get access to factory built light sport aircraft that are properly manufactured and safely flown in many many other properly regulated countries .. another example of the CAA unable to resist gold plating our regulations to the disadvantage of UK pilots.
By patowalker
#1884627
Other properly regulated countries have some requirements that we might not want to follow. For example, ballistic recovery systems are mandatory on German certified microlights,. Do we really want to add that expense to the microlights we import?

Edit: I clearly remember GtE of this parish expressing his view on why German certified microlights required a parachute. :)