I don't own a GPS.

Do you mean "I don't own a GPS (but the aeroplane I fly has one)"

or

"I don't use a GPS"

If the latter, in the 21st Century why ever not (unless you have a very specific localised mission profile that you never deviate from)?

Statistics: Posted by PaulB — Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:26 pm

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I do. I don't own a GPS.

Then please let me know when you take to the air, so that I can be sure to stay on the ground

Statistics: Posted by johnm — Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:37 pm

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But should you ever be in the unfortunate position of infringing controlled airspace then you will probably be dealt with fairly unsympathetically if it becomes clear that you’ve elected not to avail yourself of the cheap and simple aids to navigation that are now so widely available. It’s really your choice.

Statistics: Posted by David Wood — Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:12 pm

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Leaving aside the issue of GPS Nav and

I do. I don't own a GPS.

Statistics: Posted by Kemble Pitts — Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:04 pm

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Leaving aside the issue of GPS Nav and whether or not anyone in the real world would navigate by Ded Reckoning, there is the issue of how you would assess drift and regain track if Ded Reckoning.

You need to understand how the 1 in 60 rule works from a background knowledge point of view. and of course you could use it. But no-one really calculates their heading made good by using it. There are much simpler and more useful methods.

Statistics: Posted by David Wood — Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:04 pm

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It’s an important cost to factor in. During circuits I recall the t&g and landings cost morethan the aircraft did. The joy of training in the south east

Statistics: Posted by AndyR — Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:20 am

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Lots of activity, decent facilities and a few different schools so caters for micros or regular GA.

Breeze Aviation (at Sherburn) have a lovely, almost brand new Eurofox.

Statistics: Posted by RichJordan — Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:38 pm

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Can somebody run through a step by step practical application? Say if I was sitting flying the route, map on knee?

I share your pain. Thirty years in I still don't honestly understand the 1 in 60 rule, or at least while sort of seeing what it's about don't stand a chance of recalling it accurately enough to put it to practical use.

If I were sitting with that chart on my knee and passing the small town mentioned above found I was two miles off the track I had planned then,

But, you are learning this purely to pass an outdated examination. It might be good idea to look at some of the questions set on this topic so that you can summon up the required mathematics on the day of the exam.

Good luck, and welcome.

Rob P

Statistics: Posted by Rob P — Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:08 pm

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https://apply.caa.co.uk/CAAPortal/servl ... rmCode=PMD

Statistics: Posted by Irv Lee — Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:17 pm

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Statistics: Posted by Irv Lee — Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:04 pm

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A fulfil the medical requirements for a standard car licence (1) but don't for a class 2 (HGV) medical

With this in mind, does anyone know if that means I can’t take passengers?

Thanks

Statistics: Posted by Jonnerslr — Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:43 pm

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(*) Actually the 1 in 60 for course corrections is less good as it is approximating tan(x) = x and that is less accurate for larger value of x. I might post a graph if I get around to it.

Statistics: Posted by tcc1000 — Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:25 pm

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Statistics: Posted by LooBee — Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:47 pm

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I’m starting to understand, I’m trying every bodies suggestions.

I also get a little perplexed by the division. What is the best way to keep the maths simple?

Kind Regards

Statistics: Posted by Whizzbang — Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:32 pm

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2/30 multiplied by 60 says 4 degrees drift & assume it's to your left.

to get back on course in 30 miles you turn right 8 degrees because turning right by 4 degrees leaves you parallel to your original course and you want to get back to it. after 30 miles you turn left 4 degrees and are now back on course with a correction for drift.

Rinse and repeat at each way point.

Statistics: Posted by johnm — Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:09 pm

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Statistics: Posted by lobstaboy — Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:47 pm

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Also is there another way to calculate off track calculations etc?

The way I did it during my PPL Nav didn't use the 1 in 60 rule at all; I simply drew on extra lines on my chart that were 10 degrees off-track from my starting point and destination, drawing them in the least-cluttered portion of the map and to half-way or a quarter-way along the route. Not terrifically sensible for longer legs, but perfectly fine for PPL/QXC legs.

What I could then do was when I got a fix over a town, or over some VRP, quickly eyeball how many degrees off of the exact track I was, using the 10 degree line from the starting point as a guide to 'guesstimate' my off-track drift. I'd then be able to eyeball, using the

It's rough and inelegant, but worked well enough for a PPL where the legs were short, and the features distinct. It isn't bulletproof though, and depending where you're flying the airspace may simply just be too cluttered on the chart; I just found I was too dull in the air to sit there and work out the 1-in-60 rule if it wasn't absolutely required (and I do think it's good to know how to do it, in case).

Statistics: Posted by Jack.Tyler — Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:52 pm

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Draw a really long thin triangle such that the two long sides are about sixty times longer than the short side. The other details don't matter.

If you now measure the smallest angle (the pointy end), you should find that it's about one degree. As long as the long sides are about sixty times longer than the short side, this should always be the case. For triangles with different ratios, the angle will be different, but a triangle with an approximate ratio of one in sixty, the angle of the pointy end is always approximately one degree.

This is where the one in sixty rule comes from.

It's not an exact mathematical truth, since for example if the triangle is right angled then the angle would be around 0.95 degrees (the inverse tan of 1/60). But that's close enough to 1 for pilots since we might fly within about five degrees of our target heading anyway.

The exact mathematical way to do wind drift calculations is to draw a triangle of vectors and use trigonometry. The "max drift" calculation instead makes use of the above approximation to save us having to do the trigonometry each time. For our usual triangles (a TAS that's significantly more than the wind strength, so relatively pointy triangles) the approximation is good enough.

Statistics: Posted by rdfb — Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:41 pm

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Statistics: Posted by rikur_ — Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:16 pm

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Is it best to put in 10nm marks and check that? What if im 1nm off at 10nm?

In this instance if you did nothing and maintained the same heading and assuming no change in wind then you would be 6 miles off course at 60 miles or 6 degrees. Assuming your are off to starboard, to get back on course you would need to turn to port by 12 degrees which would put you back on your course line after 10 miles, then turn 6 degrees to starboard to correct the drift to restore your correct heading. Make sense?

Statistics: Posted by Gas Guzzler — Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:44 pm

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Is it best to put in 10nm marks and check that? What if im 1nm off at 10nm?

No. How are you going to estimate 1nm off at 10nm out? You can't possibly, unless you have a ground feature to use as a reference.

Suppose you've planned to fly over the middle of a (small) town, or other feature, say it's 20 miles from your start.

You get to the town, but notice that it's to the side, not right on track.

You estimate that you're two miles off, or three, or whatever,

It's at that point that you use the 1:60 rule to get a drift angle, and then apply a suitable correction to get back on track.

The thing is, the calculation can be very rough indeed, and still be useful. It doesn't matter whether your correction is 10 degrees or 12 degrees - it will be enough to fix the drift so that the next way point after that is visible, at which point you can make another correction.

Does that help?

Statistics: Posted by TopCat — Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:37 pm

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Is it best to put in 10nm marks and check that? What if im 1nm off at 10nm?

I do appreciate all the replies

Statistics: Posted by Whizzbang — Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:31 pm

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FTAOD, I am not a licensed pilot, . I have "had a go" with a little Garmin 296 and was amazed at the accuracy and immediacy of deviation and correction.

Statistics: Posted by cockney steve — Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:25 pm

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