A mistake on the GAR form?

[bookworm]

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00011--t.htm#sch7

has the designated airports at the bottom. It's correct that Shoreham is not on the list.

[derekf]

Peter,

If you didn't get back until Monday it must have been a long trip as I thought you left Guernsey on Saturday

Derek...

[Colonel Panic]

I've just been turned over by the Special Branch, in a friendly way but they say the standard 3-page GAR form which I showed them has a mistake on it. The relevant bit is here http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/designated1.jpg and basically Shoreham should be marked like Farnborough i.e. Shoreham is NOT designated for the Terrorism Act.

So going to/from Shoreham to the Channel Islands / Ireland does need the fax to the police.

Sorry to hear of your woes, peter-h. Whilst the GENDEC form might be "wrong", I hesitate to say that I'm surprised that it's news to anyone that notifying Special Branch about a Shoreham / CI flight was needed. A couple of points ...

1. The Shoreham Airport website specifically mentions that ... "Shoreham (Brighton City) Airport and Goodwood Aerodrome are NOT Designated under the Terrorism Act 2000."

2. In FEB-04, John Haffenden (Airport Manager) wrote to account holders, advising everyone precisely who needs to be told with regards to which flights. See here and here. IIRC, this table is also hanging up in the Briefing Room (?)

Is this different from your (current) understanding?

A separate matter is whether Immigration need to be advised for travel to Shoreham from the EU. I recall the relevant law says they don't need to be (certainly that's been the practice for as long as anyone can recall) but they sure want to be, having written to the airport manager to that effect, and confirming it in a very stroppy phone call with me.

This lot is getting a bit dodgy; one may as well do a GAR form for everything and just automatically fax it to all 3 numbers, for every flight to/from the UK mainland.

FWIW, I fax the GENDEC form to Customs / Immigration for an EU flight, and to Customs / Immigration / Special Branch for a CTA flight.

[johnm]

This always a pain in the neck 'cos joined up government is a myth.

HMCE, God Bless them need to be told for all flights outside the UK Immigration need to be told for all flights outside Great Britain and Special Branch need to be told if you're inbound or outbound to/from the Common Travel Area.

The notice periods vary, customs 4 hours EU and Common Travel, 24 outside EU. Immigration I've always assumed is the same as Customs but I now realise I couldn't swear to that Special Branch 12 hours to the CI, but 24 hours everywhere else.

I await correction of the foregoing!

HMCE allow email to a central site, bless them. All the others require fax to local offices, except when they allow email, somewhat reluctantly.

I take my hat off to the operations people at the fields I use where they handle all this, I really struggle when I'm on my own with no easy access to a fax machine.

[Colonel Panic]

HMCE, God Bless them need to be told for all flights outside the UK

Unless, of course, the flight is to/from the CTA

Immigration need to be told for all flights outside Great Britain

Only inbound flights from outwith the CTA

and Special Branch need to be told if you're inbound or outbound to/from the Common Travel Area.

Affirm.

NB: The above is to/from Shoreham - other UK airports may vary

The notice periods vary, customs 4 hours EU and Common Travel, 24 outside EU.

24 hours? Really?

Special Branch 12 hours to the CI, but 24 hours everywhere else.

24 hours? Really?

Or have I missed the irony emoticon?

[johnm]

Colonel Panic wrote

quote]Or have I missed the irony emoticon?[[/quote]

You shooore did

The CTA does of course redefine UK and GB!!! It also makes Ireland a different class of EU country.

[Propwash]

It also makes Ireland a different class of EU country.

There are, to be fair, some reasonably goods grounds for that.

PW

[SteveC]

I juts fax everyone and the dog now the day before as I have given up trying to understand!

[2Donkeys]

the question is whether a letter sent to known customers of an airport by the manager should take precedence over one freshly downloaded from a Govt website.

It would seem that the answer is yes.

[dublinpilot]

So what about those who aren't known customer of said aiport, and who don't use the briefing room?

I think if you were to look at the government form, downloaded from the government website that morning, you'd be entitled to assume it was both up to date, and also contained accurate information.

If the special branch officers know the information was incorrect, then why wasn't the website changed? Surely it would be quicker to change the form on the website, once the error was noticed, than it would be to inform all the sb officers of the error?

[Colonel Panic]

I have seen the forms you refer to; the question is whether a letter sent to known customers of an airport by the manager should take precedence over one freshly downloaded from a Govt website.

Agreed, but notwithstanding that, did you not receive the Haffenden letter, or did you just assume it was wrong?

And since I can now file flight plans remotely I haven't been to the briefing room for many months

Nor I - mainly due to the ludicrously long advanced notice filing a flight plan via the Briefing Room - IIRC, the airport wants 1 hour's advance notice for a VFR FP, and 3 hours for an IFR FP

What someone needs to do is develop an interactive form with a SUBMIT button at the bottom which faxes a copy to all 3 agencies. The problem is that the fax numbers are different for different airports.

That would be great; I wonder whether some sort of macro could be written so that one's computer automatically faxes the GENDEC to all 3 agencies? Maybe Apple's Automator is the answer? Trouble is I haven't got my head around that technology yet

[scuderia]

So what about those who aren't known customer of said aiport, and who don't use the briefing room?

Well if your flying club is half decent they should tell you.

Scud