[wonko the sane]

Insurance definition of airside is:
2) any road/surface that is used for the taxi of aircraft.
3) any apron and re-fueling area.

That particular area of NW is both a taxiway and the only road leading to The Squadron. I definitely need to consider getting additional insurance. Should I ever get back to flying again anytime soon ...

[Runway20]

First post here (and an unfortunate topic) although I've been watching these forums for a good few years now. Followed a link to this thread from pprune and thought it was about time I signed up and gave an input.

I arrived at NW on Sunday disappointed to find that the main runway was shut for drag racing, and that they were using RWY13 with a wind of about 04012KT (according to EGSS METARs) which put it about on the x-wind limit for my aircraft. I was therefore keeping a good look out on the other traffic seeing how they were coping with the x-wind on the shorter runway, I'd never used RWY13 before and there is quite a dip in it too.

Having been to give my aircraft a check, I was walking along the taxiway which runs infront of the squadron and looked up just as the aircraft was climbing out (I wasn't looking in time to see if it had taken off or was going around, so cannot end the speculation on that point I'm afraid). At approx 150ft and in line with the taxiway intersection, the aircraft entered a rather sharp left turn through approx 90 degrees, pointing toward me (North) for a few seconds, and possibly still climbing but difficult to tell now from this angle. It continued this left turn, angle of bank appearing to get steeper and aircraft now descending, almost over the top of the squadron at this point. The turn continued and descent was quite rapid by this point, and by the time the aircraft had gone behind the squadron out of sight it was now pointing South, perpendicular again with RWY13. A second or so later I heard the bang, and once I'd gone round the corner observed that the aircraft had hit the Volvo somewhere on it's right side, as it was driving away from the squadron area.

I think the main reason for the airfield closure is that the accident was blocking the taxiway which cars use to access the squadron....the only other route would be to cross RWY13/31 which I assume the airfield weren't happy to allow seeing as Sunday's can be pretty busy at NW.

I must admit it wasn't at all nice to see happen, and I had some rather horrible images in my head today when I was driving to the airport ready to attempt flying again. I hope I've not given away too much detail here, I hate speculators and so if I've accidentally said anything out of my depth then I ask the mods to please remove it and let me know that I've gone too far.

I just wish the pilot a speedy recovery now, it's incredibly sad to hear of these things happen let alone see them. A huge well done to the gentleman who helped the pilot from the scene, along with the volunteer fire crew who put the fire under control within a few seconds.

[Paul_Sengupta]

Sounds like the pilot was very lucky to get away with this.

[Gerard Clarke]

Welcome to the Forum, Runway 20, and thanks for your very clear information. Runway 13 looks shorter than it is when viewed from the final approach, because it is so wide. From (possibly faulty) memory, when I landed, about ten minutes before the accident, the wind was something like 030, 5 knots.

the eye witnesses quoted by the Daily Wail may have been non flyers, and, as we know, witness accounts of flying accidents by non flyers can be a bit odd, because the witness is not always able to interpret what he or she is seeing.

Not so.

Why so emphatic, UV? We often read accounts of accidents which are unclear. Some of the comments quoted on the Mail website fall into that category. I would say that some such accounts suggest that the witness had difficulty analysing the events seen, which is why we get so many references to "nose diving", "tailspins", and assorted variants of plummeting puppywards.

[ROG]

It could have been much worse--so let"s be thankfull for that.

[UV]

Gerard, you have not included my whole reply in your quote. What I actually said was ...

Not so.

Many of the "expert witnesses" sometimes put personal interpretations into what they see and are frequently proved wrong. For example.. and expert witness may say "the aircraft clearly stalled...", whereas the layman will say..." the aircraft was very nose high...". Two entirely different things.

You will find the professionals sometimes find it easier to interpret what the layman sees and says rather than what the expert, who may has his own strong views, sees and says.

...which is somewhat different!

AAIB Investigators will tell you that once an "expert witness" has got something in mind he may find it extremely difficult to be persuaded that he is in fact wrong. I gave a very simple example above.

The Investigators can often (not always) gleen a lot more from someone who actually talks about tailspins etc because they are not preemting what they think they may have seen and are actually telling it as it was.

He can then use the known facts,the laymans evidence with no preconceived ideas, and his expert knowledge to fathom out what really happened.

[Frank Leopald]

Runway 20, are you going to forward your account to AAIB? It appears from your post that you have valuable info which should be added to the witness file.

PM me if you need help contacting them.

Frank Leopald

[Runway20]

Frank, I've been searching the AAIB website but would appreciate if you could PM me a contact within the AAIB to send my report to? I was told on the day that there were already several other pilot witnesses who I assumed would be just as reliable sources as me...however seeing as I have typed it all out here I guess I may as well copy it over to the AAIB as well. Many thanks.

[jerz]

Frank, I've been searching the AAIB website but would appreciate if you could PM me a contact within the AAIB to send my report to? I was told on the day that there were already several other pilot witnesses who I assumed would be just as reliable sources as me...however seeing as I have typed it all out here I guess I may as well copy it over to the AAIB as well. Many thanks.

Call them on 01252 510300 and they will put you through to the person delegated with the case, best to initially talk it through with them, then go from there.
Following my own incident, I found them very helpful and appreciative of any sensible information that I could help them with and took the opportunity for a visit there at the same time.

[flydual]

Is this potentailly as case of the Aero AT-3 demonstrating it's swing to the left on rapid application of power!

the pilot concerned probably has the highest number of AT-3 hours of anyone in the UK. I would speculate that he is more than capable of controlling a swing that only occurs below about 25kts IAS.

... But obviously not when airborne.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bul ... g_ukat.cfm

"He further considered that he should also have opened the throttle more slowly, to accommodate the distinct leftward torque effect from this engine"

looks like more a case of "familiarity breeds contempt" as opposed to "hours equal ability" that so many experienced pilots like to remind the less experienced of!

Anyway I hope the pilot has made a full recovery.

[UV]

flydual

I suggest you read the report more carefully.

The pilot concerned was not the one Dave initially thought was flying the aeroplane...

The FACT is he had only 464 hours total, and 258 on type...

Hardly the most experienced pilot, on type, in the UK and certainly nothing to do with familiarity breeds contempt.

I suggest you review your remarks and, yes, he has made a good recovery.

UV

[Paul_Sengupta]

Only 258 hours on type...a mere beginner then...

[noblelordflash]

"finals"..............

luv

xxx
f

[pilotbarry]

its only an extra s, be brave, accept it, its the way forward, worse things happen in aviation.

[Dave Phillips]

Well, eating a bit of humble pie, I have no idea how anyone with that level of experience on type can get the aircraft so far out of sorts. Yes, it can be a bit difficult with direction on the ground but once in teh air it is no different to many other Rotax VLAs.

I'm left pondering over the details given in the AAIB report.