"Bearing To" in SkyDemon

[Lefty]

Buzzman - why not look at the airplane symbol on the map? This will tell you both which way and by approximately how much you need to turn to get back onto track. I also allows you to choose whether you want to regain the original track - or take up a track direct to the waypoint.

[buzzman]

.... it is easier to detect that you are drifting off track by comparing the Bearing number against a TMG number - than to try to figure if the tiny little airplane symbol is / is not exactly aligned with the bearing line on a map display.

+1

Buzzman - why not look at the airplane symbol on the map? This will tell you both which way and by approximately how much you need to turn to get back onto track.

.. because I cannot see why this should be done 'approximately'. The data exists to do this properly and accurately and that's the way it should be done - properly rather than approximately.

[Timothy]

Lefty,

I don't really understand your point about the predicted track. The easiest way of flying, at a glance, is to overlay the projected track onto the magenta line.

[FlyingPanda]

I hesitate to step back into this as I raised the potential "Homing" issue about 400,000 pages ago, but I think my way of using a GPS (and possibly some others here) may differ from the norm.

I like to keep the old 6-pack scan going, and as such I still like to bug headings. I also use auto-pilot quite a lot on longer "commutes". In order to know what heading to bug, I look at the SkyDemon plog (which includes a Wind-Corrected heading) and dial it in. I know it won't be correct, and I do adjust it after occasional reference to the magenta line, but I'm rarely too far out.

My iPad sits on my lap, out of my main field of view and I glance at it much like I would a chart, (for confirmation) rather than "following" it continually. I must admit much of this was due to a slight lack of confidence in SkyDemon not dropping out on me (which after a few weeks of doing it a lot, it hasn't now done in the last 30 hrs of flying, and still improves with every update) but also due to the whole "head down" concerns.

I'd be interested to learn if most people simply follow the magenta line alone, which (assuming you are making very frequent corrections) will work and won't result in homing. If however you use it to "confirm position" (rather than as a Control Instrument) it doesn't really work so well.

Is it a case of re-learning how to use a GPS, or simply positioning it to become part of the scan?

[Lefty]

Lefty,

I don't really understand your point about the predicted track. The easiest way of flying, at a glance, is to overlay the projected track onto the magenta line.

Different words - same meaning. You say projected track - I said Predicted track. Same thing - the little line ahead of the airplane showing where you will be in the future (assuming heading, wind etc remain the same).

[Tim Dawson]

This can only be done approximately because SkyDemon doesn't have the data to give a reliable "control" instrument reading, for the reasons I outlined before. Yes we have the forecast wind data, but that's a forecast and will never _exactly_ represent what's happening to the plane.

The idea of showing a quick notice saying "Turn onto 270 for Henstridge" I can get behind, because it's a momentary thing designed to get you pointing in approximately the right direction, after which you can use the DI or CCI to keep on track.

The idea of a new, dedicated instrument giving a reading which is almost guaranteed not to accurately represent what your real aircraft instruments are saying, I find much less appealing.

[stevelup]

My iPad sits on my lap, out of my main field of view and I glance at it much like I would a chart, (for confirmation) rather than "following" it continually.

I look at the iPad only infrequently - once I'm on track I use the DI in the six pack to maintain heading.

[buzzman]

This can only be done approximately because SkyDemon doesn't have the data to give a reliable "control" instrument reading, for the reasons I outlined before. Yes we have the forecast wind data, but that's a forecast and will never _exactly_ represent what's happening to the plane.

The idea of showing a quick notice saying "Turn onto 270 for Henstridge" I can get behind, because it's a momentary thing designed to get you pointing in approximately the right direction, after which you can use the DI or CCI to keep on track.

The idea of a new, dedicated instrument giving a reading which is almost guaranteed not to accurately represent what your real aircraft instruments are saying, I find much less appealing.

Tim, I think there must be some confusion here. I'm not suggesting you add a new 'control instrument reading' to tell pilots which heading to take up. I'm saying you really must tell the pilot where the next waypoint is as a bearing from the pilot's current position at any time. The pilot will make his/her own decision regarding the heading to take up but then you will have given all the information necessary for him/her to make that decision. presently you don't - not easily anyway.

That's the 'Bearing To' value which should ideally sit at the top of the screen with the other fields of data giving the fourth of the four factors required as explained by Lefty earlier.

[GrahamB]

Interesting discussion, in that it really does point out even with the same tool, different people will feel comfortable using it in different ways. However, I do suspect that those with an iPad version need less by the way of 'numbers on the screen' as the visual picture is so much easier to assimilate than on a 5" device.

As an iPad SD user, I rarely look at the plog, and certainly ignore any wind corrected headings it's come up with. As I reach a turning point, I'll instinctively turn towards the waypoint by approximately the right amount, according to the situational picture, and line up the projected track with the magenta line to give me a heading.

If I want any more, I look at either the GNS430 and its remote CDI, or the GPS296, or both ....

[Lefty]

Interesting discussion, in that it really does point out even with the same tool, different people will feel comfortable using it in different ways. However, I do suspect that those with an iPad version need less by the way of 'numbers on the screen' as the visual picture is so much easier to assimilate than on a 5" device.

As an iPad SD user, I rarely look at the plog, and certainly ignore any wind corrected headings it's come up with. As I reach a turning point, I'll instinctively turn towards the waypoint by approximately the right amount, according to the situational picture, and line up the projected track with the magenta line to give me a heading.

If I want any more, I look at either the GNS430 and its remote CDI, or the GPS296, or both ....

That's exactly what I do. It is just so easy to see what track you need to turn on to.

[Timothy]

Me too.

[flybymike]

:scratch: Probably being dense but I am lost with that description!

Looking at this picture:



See how the lubber line descends into the instrument. The idea, for a perfect turn on, is always to have the top tip of the CDI touching the bottom of the lubber line (in the picture shown, the pilot should turn about 10 degrees right to achieve that, at the moment the intercept angle is too great.)

It's not rocket science, and it doesn't work in strong crosswinds, but it's a very good starting point. (Interestingly, it does work in cross winds if the instrument is GPS track based rather than heading based.)

Your aircraft in the middle achieves the same sort of thing, but is less accurate and more intrusive.

Ah yes thanks for that Timothy. What a splendid depiction of an HSI. If I had had to save my life by guessing what a "lubber line" was before now I would have said something to do with ships (but I'm probably thinking of landlubbers or summat..)
We both seem to be doing the same thing but you are using the lubber line, and instead I am using the nose of the aircraft symbol, both of which are of course aligned . What confused me in your first post was talk of a horizontal beam bar or something like that.
The strange thing is that I have just this minute converted my trial subscription to fully paid up, and whilst the aircraft symbol does not seem to appear in the trial version , it is there in the paid one!

[trapdoor]

My iPad sits on my lap, out of my main field of view and I glance at it much like I would a chart, (for confirmation) rather than "following" it continually.

I look at the iPad only infrequently - once I'm on track I use the DI in the six pack to maintain heading.

Same here, and I use the 'proper' DI for my turns. Therefore when I get a "turn for (next waypoint)", I'd quite like it to give me a rough, but probably pretty accurate numeric that will stick in my brain as I make the turn, referencing the DI and not head down in my lap whilst I try to line up the extended heading ladder onto the magenta line. Once I'm heading roughly the right way, after having made my turn, keeping a good lookout whilst I'm making the turn, and I'm nice and settled, I'll then look at the position of my aircraft against the magenta track line and correct accordingly.

Seems to me ther are too many people who are flying 'instruments' with SD, making turns head in, watching to line their yellow aircraft onto the magenta line

[Captain Fourbars]

I have also seen this anomaly in the new Sky Demon and looking at all the comments in reply to Buzzman, I have to ask why people even THINK of buying a product whose raison d'être is to relieve the pilot's workload, yet demands that he does either mental arithmetic or takes extra steps to establish - and here's the crunch - what the Sky Demon already calculates as its very starting point, namely bearing to a waypoint.

It strikes me as a no-brainer to at least offer Bearing To as an on-screen field or at worst, readily selectable option.

I am not challenging the traditional kindness of responders in offering workarounds, but that is the point. Workarounds should not be necessary!

Considering the price of the Sky Demon, I suspect for many (myself included) it is too much to splash out and abandon if they don't like it. (The 30 day trial with 30 minute limits, is not really adequate) and I bet Garmin's forthcoming version (and others') will be worth waiting for to see if they feel the same way as Sky Demon.

Watch out, guys. Stuff is improving beyond belief, but GA pilots are being seen as cash cows. We should not accept products that do not do as WE need. I for one am going to wait just a little longer and check out the competition.

[Tim Dawson]

Anyone at Aero Expo can check out what we've already done about this, and see what they think, in the form of the notice displayed when it's time to make a turn.