"Bearing To" in SkyDemon

[buzzman]

Can any of you SkyDemon fans out there please tell me if it's possible,when navigating on the ipad, to have the 'Bearing To' next waypoint value shown on screen.

I know I can get to it by tapping the next waypoint and scrolling down for the value but when SkyDemon tells me, for example, to "Turn for Coventry" it would be really nice to know (and at all times) where that waypoint is relative to my current position.

I can see the heading bug on the DI showing which way I should be heading but I'd like a permanent Bearing value.

Maybe there's a setting I'm missing.

Thanks

[trapdoor]

I too, can't see a way to show this. Having been used to the Bendix King Skymap II, that did state, when it gave the next waypoint turn instruction, what the heading to turn onto from your current.

It does seem to be a glaring miss ... Perhaps it's deliberate, but I can't see why. I tend to pop Into the plog screen to check my next heading, but it would be really nice to show it as you approach the turn.

[buzzman]

Going to the PLOG is OK if you're right on track but if not, neither the Trk nor Hdg will give you the bearing to the next waypoint - an essential bit of data at all times methinks.

I agree with you that it does seem to be a glaring miss.

[Tim Dawson]

The direction indicator has a constant readout of the track you should be going for in order to make your next waypoint. It's track though, not heading.

Poking the direction indicator collapses it into a simple course correction indicator. This simply tells you if you need to turn right or left and if so, by how much, and once you get used to that it's a really easy way of keeping on track.

[GrahamB]

Why not enable the projected track ladder? If you are on track you can easily see what heading you are actually having to steer to maintain it; if you are off track, you can turn the aircraft to a heading that will get direct to the next waypoint, or rejoin the planned track at an appropriate point.

[buzzman]

The direction indicator has a constant readout of the track you should be going for in order to make your next waypoint. It's track though, not heading.

I can't see that on mine. When the DI is 'docked' it seems to display the Numerical value of the track I'm on, not the track I should be going. When the DI is 'floating' there is no digital readout. The heading bug on the DI seems to correspond with the bearing (which is what I want) but I can't tell if that indicates the bearing to next waypoint or suggested heading taking into account the expected wind drift component. Anyway, there's no numerical readout of bearing. Is there a reason why it can't just be added to the data on the top of the screen. It is essential data.

Poking the direction indicator collapses it into a simple course correction indicator. This simply tells you if you need to turn right or left and if so, by how much, and once you get used to that it's a really easy way of keeping on track.

Yes but not very precise. Why not just show the bearing? Once track matches bearing you would know you're bang on course for your next waypoint. This takes into account any heading corrections required for actual wind encountered aloft.

[buzzman]

Why not enable the projected track ladder? If you are on track you can easily see what heading you are actually having to steer to maintain it; if you are off track, you can turn the aircraft to a heading that will get direct to the next waypoint, or rejoin the planned track at an appropriate point.

Not terribly accurate, particularly if your next waypoint is further away than the end of the projected track ladder time or distance. Why use trial and error when the software already knows what the bearing is but just doesn't make it possible to permanently see it?

[stevelup]

I have to confess that I'm slightly confused here. I've been using SkyDemon since launch and have never considered this to be a problem.

All you've got to do is keep the heading bug in the middle - it always points you to the next waypoint, and by its nature it self-corrects for drift.

Also, I wonder why you consider the collapsed course correction indicator to be imprecise? Why is a single readout that tells you which way to turn and exactly by how many degrees less precise than monitoring two separate numbers and waiting until they match.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding here, you appear to be looking for a problem that doesn't exist by trying to fly using a mixture of dead reckoning and GPS. Wind drift has no relevance when you're navigating using GPS?

[GrahamB]

All you've got to do is keep the heading bug in the middle - it always points you to the next waypoint, and by its nature it self-corrects for drift.

In the IFR world this is known as 'homing' and it is not an efficient way to track to a waypoint unless the wind is zero, or on the nose/tail. You will end up making a curved track which tightens towards the waypoint; the greater the crosswind, the greater the deviation from a straight course. At worst, this could put you somewhere you shouldn't be, at best it will take longer.

I find it highly amusing that we now have one of the best real-time visual situational awareness tools ever produced, and we're discussing how to use it as an ADF!

[buzzman]

I have to confess that I'm slightly confused here. I've been using SkyDemon since launch and have never considered this to be a problem.

All you've got to do is keep the heading bug in the middle - it always points you to the next waypoint, and by its nature it self-corrects for drift.

Also, I wonder why you consider the collapsed course correction indicator to be imprecise? Why is a single readout that tells you which way to turn and exactly by how many degrees less precise than monitoring two separate numbers and waiting until they match.

Unless I'm completely misunderstanding here, you appear to be looking for a problem that doesn't exist by trying to fly using a mixture of dead reckoning and GPS. Wind drift has no relevance when you're navigating using GPS?

Navigation is easy if you know two things: where you are and where the waypoint is that you are headed. For the latter you need to know the bearing of that waypoint from your current location. Yes I know you can follow the bug on the DI but I would like to know exactly where that bug is pointing I.e. what is the bearing of the next waypoint.

Anyway, if the DI is docked, you may not be able to see the bug if the turn is great in which case it will be off the screen to the left or right. Not helpful.

The collapsed course direction indicator does not tell exactly by how many degrees to turn. It gives that in multiples of 5 degrees only. And In this mode you lose the benefits of the DI. OK, perhaps that's fine for most but it amazes me that the actual data isn't available as permanent data.

Consider this scenario: you're flying on autopilot and are about to turn towards the next waypoint either because you've reached one waypoint or perhaps you had to deviate from your course to avoid cloud, if you know the exact bearing to the next waypoint you simply dial that value with a wind correction onto your heading bug in your aircraft. Job done. With things as they stand one would have to either undock the SD DI to see where the heading bug is, or lose the benefit of the SD DI by collapsing it in order to see the course deviation indicator which in any case is only going to give you guidance in 5 degree chunks.

Yes you can do it your way with the limitations I've said and on a less than accurate basis. This is such a basic issue though that I still don't see why the software can't simply (very simply) just allow one to always see the bearing to the next waypoint. Job done. It's basic navigation.

Don't get me wrong, having used a Garmin 296 for years I'm finding the trial of SkyDemon very impressive but I'm amazed at this apparent omission of basic nav data I. When I posted this I expected someone to say "just press this" or " change this setting" but sadly this doesn't seem to be the case.

[stevelup]

In the IFR world this is known as 'homing'

It's only homing if you're not following the magenta line though?

The collapsed course direction indicator does not tell exactly by how many degrees to turn. It gives that in multiples of 5 degrees only.

If you can fly a heading more accurately than 5 degrees, you're a better man than most!

The Windows CE version does (or certainly did - not checked recently) show both values on the DI instrument at the bottom so I'm sure it could be added.

[GrahamB]

In the IFR world this is known as 'homing'

It's only homing if you're not following the magenta line though?

Agreed, but if you are on the Magenta line anyway, isn't all this discussion a bit fruitless, as you will steer a heading to keep on or close to it.

I agree that a CRS value would be a nice to have. Perhaps Tim and team could incorporate it in the same way as the ALT/HGT toggle works; i.e. by being able to toggle between TRK M, DTK and CRS on the same button.

[Timothy]

Surely the "homing" problem only arises if you are talking about heading? As SD (like any GPS) is only interested in TMG, it eliminates the homing issue...or am I being dense?

[trapdoor]

OK, so puzzle me this ....

Why is there any sort of popup message then that tells you, when you are at the end of your current leg, and almost 'at' the waypoint, to "turn for Coventry" (as in buzzman's example)? Why say anything at all, just let you 'work it out'.

So, if it says "turn for Coventry", why can't it say "Turn to 045 for Coventry" like my Skymap does? Why bother having a PLOG with the track and heading of each waypoint on? When flying DR, why not just look at your paper half mil and roughly work it out? You don't because when you reach the waypoint, you want to see easily what heading/track to turn onto.

I'd rather, when I'm flying, not keep chasing the magenta line ... at the waypoint, when I am looking to turn onto the next heading/track, It'd be quite nice just to get the info right there in numerical form ..... I'm less bothered about having the bearing/heading/track to the waypoint after the one i'm flying to displayed constantly (which is what I believe buzzman was asking), and whilst it's easy to keep the 'ladder' on the line on the current track to the next waypoint (or use the bug in the virtual DI), if you happen to fly through the turn point, having the popup that is then constantly updating the heading to get you turned back onto the correct track for the waypoint would be handy?

I really do like Skydemon, but I do miss some of the 'basic' things that were there on my Skymap but missing on Skydemon.

[stevelup]

I really do like Skydemon, but I do miss some of the 'basic' things that were there on my Skymap but missing on Skydemon

Just make a feature request. SkyDemon has the most responsive developers that I have ever encountered.

why can't it say "Turn to 045 for Coventry" like my Skymap does?

That's a really good suggestion.