[Mk-John]

Hello
I am very gutted today. Earlier in the year (March) I embarked on training to convert my NZ PPL(A), to an EASA PPL(A).
Prior to March, the last time I flew was in 2000. However, I was careful to check the CAA Document 804, regarding licence conversion, and according to that, I thought I had everything.

Prior to March, I had:

NZ ICAO PPL(A) Lifetime license
120 hours as a Pilot, flying Cessna 172 & Cessna 152

Recently, I passed exams in Human Performance and UK air law, completed more flight training of about 18 hours, inc about 5 hrs. solo(training as required), and passed my skills test two weeks ago, which is when I submitted everything to the CAA licensing dept.

I had an email from them saying the following:
I need to pass an RT practical test (which is what I kind of expected so no shock there)
Have my language proficiency checked (even though my examiner put level 6 on the examiners report)
My NZ medical needs to be valid at time of application (it lapsed in 2004)
My NZ license does not show a valid SEP rating

Also, they say that in order to process the application, they say they that to issue a license, and if I can't provide evidence of a valid NZ SEP rating, they need a written explanation from my training provider as to the basis of the reduced course, and exam credits (just two exams as above), and whether they have received any formal approval for credits.

I am absolutely gutted. I was sure I had everything as outlined in CAA document CAP804.
I now have 150 hours in my logbook, passed a skills test for SEP, but can't get my license. Its lunacy that they want a valid NZ medical, a current SEP on the NZ license, all when I am here to stay, and I'm a British Citizen.

Should I complain, that CAP 804 was not clear? I was positive I had everything, or else I would have shed out thousands on this recent training. I'm guessing that I will have to the complete 45 hour course, and a pass all 9 exams, and then do another skills test.
Gutted isn't the word.

[Cookie]

Discussed here:

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=91242

It's not the CAA's fault as such. They asked EASA for an interpretation of what some of the statements in Annex III meant, and that's what they were told.

I have spoken with our EASA representatives about this issue recently and have several examples which show the current interpretation to be unnecessarily burdensome.

PM sent.

Cookie

[Mk-John]

I am thinking, that one of my options is to go to NZ for a few weeks, get a current SEP rating on my NZ license, get a NZ medical, and then come back and re-apply.

That might be more straightforward, as crazy as it might sound.
John

[Irv Lee]

It is indeed a disastrous interpretation, i would like to know a bit more about the "asking Easa" bit, like who, whom, when, where, and the actual question asked, and did both people at both ends of the communication pipeline have a full and proper understanding of both the question and answer.
The black and white requirement in Annex III of FCL to put holders of foreign icao ppls through what is effectively a rating course and full test suggests to me that whoever originally drafted it didn't have it in mind that the pilot had to be fully valid, and certainly only mentions holding a licence, and reads as if originally the idea was simply that he/she had completed a proper icao licence at some stage, but not necessarily been flying recently or had current ratings. The platinum plating on top of the gold plating is the requirement to have the foreign medical valid as well!
The worst thing is that in the case I know about, (not this one), the CAA are saying this means zero credit, a FULL ppl course is required, for someone who has a foreign licence with expired rating or even valid rating but no foreign medical. I simply cannot believe that this was the intention of the regulation when discussed, or if it was, it was discussed by people who have zero grasp of private flying.

[Mk-John]

Yep
Lots of the red tape here. I have 150 hours of flying experience....and climbing!
One of my options might be to go back to NZ for a couple of weeks, get my SEP current again, and sit through a NZ Class 2 medical!
Totally stupid as far as issuing my EASA licence as these additional things will mean nothing in practical terms since:

I don't intend returning to NZ to fly, and that I have passed a UK PPL(A) skills test, and have a current UK CAA class 2 medical.

In general, how long does it take to get an SEP rating current? is it just going up with an instructor till he is satisfied that Im safe flying the aircraft?
I'm seriously now considering wasting more money to go to NZ to do this, along with a pointless NZ class 2 medical.

But as long as it satisfies all the paper shufflers....that's all that matters!

[low&slow]

Alternatively, read para 2.3 on page 7 of the Licence allowances document from the NPPL website. You may find it easier to get an NPPL(A) SSEA, convert that to an LAPL(A) &, if you want, ultimately to a PPL(A).

[Mk-John]

Hi all
The NPPL (and LPPL) seems like a good route, but i will be keeping all of my options open at the moment.
Another thought I had about making my NZ license current: I know a NZ medical can be done at Gatwick pilot medical centre. but does anyone know if it is possible for me to get my NZ PPL SEP rating to be current, while here in the UK?

Does anyone know of a NZ instructor in the UK who could help me? In new Zealand, they can make SEP's current every two years with a check flight, just wondering if I can have it done here instead of travelling 13,000 miles to other side of the planet for something which will probably take two hours to do when I get there!
John

[garethep]

At my last medical the AME I used seemed to have certificates from the aviation authorities of many many countries hanging on his wall!! (Dr David Doyle contact details on CAA website) I cant promise NZ was one of them but he may be able either administer a NZ medical or point you in the direction of someone who can.

[Mk-John]

I just spoke to someone at the LAA (Turweston). Very nice and helpful lady, and she was very positive from what I explained to her. I have made an appoinment to see them, take all my paperwork etc, to apply for an NPPL.

Daytime VFR flying in the UK, on single engine light aircraft is really all i am interested in.
John

[bookworm]

What about applying for a LAPL? Doesn't that have credit for previous experience?

The NPPL a good idea, but limits you to Annex II aircraft (i.e. not Cessna 152/172 etc.).

[Mk-John]

Yes, the NPPL would limit me to specific aircraft, but apparently after speaking to LAA, after getting an NPPL, its just a paperwork exercise to get the LAPL.

I know I can fly well enough to pass the skills and navigation tests, any required theory tests etc, so thats not a problem in my mind. its just the process of getting in the sky on my own license seems to be never ending!

[low&slow]

An NPPL will still be valid for EASA aircraft for another 7 months.

[Mk-John]

Yes, and if i can get the NPPL before winter sets in, I will be happy, and then get the LAPL before April 2015.

[Cookie]

What about applying for a LAPL? Doesn't that have credit for previous experience?

I'm assuming you are referring to FCL.110 (a). Maybe have a review of GM1 FCL.005...

The NPPL a good idea, but limits you to Annex II aircraft (i.e. not Cessna 152/172 etc.).

Not yet it doesn't! Useable on EASA aircraft upto and including 07th April 2015...(and maybe later!)

Cookie

[Irv Lee]

This hard line interpretation of FCL Annex III is clearly Draconian and unreasonable. Is there any indication whether the CAA think so but are acting under orders from Cologne? This interpretation (that no conversion credit at all is given to a foreign icao ppl unless it is fully usable at the time of conversion) should be used urgently to test the sincerity of the EASA attitude to GA now. Many future EASA changes in the GA arena putting things right will be akin to posthumous pardons as serious damage has already been done, but this is brand new damage to a small number of GA pilots and it could be put right very quickly by EASA before it takes hold.