Genghis the Engineer wrote:Also for the benefit of my ego, quietly chasing the magic "professor" title, which hopefully I'll get one day, but not this year or the next I think.
G
Move to the USA. You will magically become a Professor at any academic institution of your choice. One of my lecturers at University was hailed Professor in the states and was thoroughly bemused by the whole thing, though he also said he missed it a bit when he came back here and became "plain" Dr. again (though a PhD is hardly a mean feat on its own!)
Or just move to Warwick, who have rather surreally adopted the USian system, for which the rest of UK academe regularly deride them.
But full "Professor" is still the same anywhere, unprefixed by "assistant", "associate" or any other bit of nonsense.
G
GtE, it's a bit overrated, IMHO. I remember how over a couple of years, Mr Harry Hinsley, a very respected history lecturer, mutated into Professor Sir Harry Hinsley, Maser of St John's. And, the funny thing is, he was exactly the same bloke as before...
I had no career advice at school because I chose not to go to university. This seemed to throw the teachers at a school where it was almost unheard of for one of the pupils to start work after 6th year. By the time my friends left Uni, I already had an established career and haven't really looked back......Except.... 25 years down the line with a career in retail management, sales & Marketing in the pharmaceutical and food industries, board level positions, new company start-ups UK and overseas, I still can't get taken seriously by the blue chip sector who seem to have a total hang up on everyone in the company having some sort of university education. The SME sector provides challenges the Blue Chips could never offer but I have the sort of personality that hates to have a door closed for the lack of a piece of paper.
George512 wrote:...P.P.S, I'd also like to add that, had I studied pure CS, rather than Games Development, I probably wouldn't even have a clue what a race condition was. Our award specifically covers a compulsory parallel programming and concurrency module, which is optional for CS students (only a handful of which have chosen). So perhaps you picked the wrong example when looking to emphasise your "cool" point . All the best
There's a lot of truth to that. When I was studying for my degree (at Bristol, in the UK - considered one of the best places for Engineering - they received top marks for their teaching abilities whilst I was there), I took a course called "C++", it wasn't until I graduated and started work that I realized that the guy teaching us C++ was in fact teaching us "C" - and had no idea of the difference! This sums up my opinion of the UK education industry. A supposedly top-level establishment, with a lecturer being well-paid to teach something that he had no idea of, let alone understanding the basic concepts. Simply incredible.
It seems like they're teaching you good real-world stuff, I've found here in Canada that the ex-Polytechnic type colleges teach skills far more akin to real-world experience than the universities - and for a fraction of the price. The more classical universities teach good background material, and that's valuable to a certain level, but not when it comes to actually getting a job. As an employer, it's the real-world, hands-on stuff that we're interested in, "How would you resolve a race condition?", "What's deadlock?", "What affects interrupt latency in the kernel?", etc...
I think to some extent, these problems are what's pulling down the UK economy, too much of the wrong sort of education.
I am staring down the barrel of 50 years old and am still looking for a career.. guess I'll never have one
Bepy pilot wrote: The SME sector provides challenges the Blue Chips could never offer but I have the sort of personality that hates to have a door closed for the lack of a piece of paper.
All the piece of paper says (for the area I work in) is that someone was able to regurgitate information over an extended period of time. It doesn't mean they have critically analytical minds, open to new ideas, commitment, stakeholder empathy, design capability, nor the lateral thinking required in the profession. I have seen people hired who have the piece of paper who couldn't spell the title of their course (true) and certainly had no idea of the basic concepts of what their course was supposed to teach. And the way it is being taught these days, leaves a lot to be desired anyway.. but I could write a book on it.
Accomplished experience for me counts over the piece of paper any day.. but I have to admit - if two candidates present; 1 with the piece of paper and one without - and both have more or less the same experience and "fit", especially if its relatively recent, then the one with the piece of paper will probably get it...
I'm seemingly very boring by comparison to most, if not all of you
Change Implementation Manager for a large government department during the day and outside work, an instructor with the Air Cadets for the last 28 years (currently Sqn Ldr RAFVR(T) with responsibility for line management of 10 Squadron Commanders, so it's more like a second job)... Previously also Chair of Governors at a local Infant School
pb6797 wrote:That Warwick link confuses me - what about lecturers and researchers? It seems as though they only start at "Reader" ...
You know, I really don't miss all that kind of BS. Universities are full of it. I used to confuse other schools no end by saying "just call me 'Nurse'"
postdoc = postdoc (also called PFRF, PDRA)
Lecturer (on probation, any other UK university) = Assistant professor (Warwick) = Assistant professor (US) = Research Fellow (all sorts of places where it's not a teaching position)
Lecturer (no longer on probation, any other UK University) = Associate Professor (Warwick) = Assistant Professor (US) = Research Fellow
Senior Lecturer (normal UK University) = Associate Professor (Warwick) = Associate Professor (US) = Senior Research Fellow
Reader (normal UK University) = Associate Professor [Reader] (Warwick) = Principle Lecturer (ex-poly) = Associate Professor (US) = Senior Research Fellow
Professor = Professor = Professor = Professor.
GtE, it's a bit overrated, IMHO. I remember how over a couple of years, Mr Harry Hinsley, a very respected history lecturer, mutated into Professor Sir Harry Hinsley, Maser of St John's. And, the funny thing is, he was exactly the same bloke as before...
Of course it's overrated, and of-course it's BS.
But, I like the BS - as I said, it's for my ego. Much as I went to all the effort of grading to black belt when I'd been running a martial arts club for a couple of years as a brown belt with a teaching certificate, or even that I persuaded Mrs.G to marry me after we'd been happily living together unmarried.
Technically none of these acts changed anything, but they all made things feel "better" to me.
Retired businessman who worked in the ....IT sector!
After starving in the music business my career started in sales and ended up with me (and a couple of partners) owning a software company; software specialising in managing infrastructure and assets of large engineering companies (oil, gas, nuclear and pharma). Worldwide experience included a period living in Los Angeles, which is currently tempting me back (weather?!) were it not for grandchild number one on its way!
I missed out on uni and all this titled stuff professor, etc is of course blox but I can't help feeling that I might like a fancy title or two... I made sure that my children followed a more convential route (Oxbridge) - I don't believe that they would have the excellent careers they now have without those educational qualifications. You can make it without - I proved that - but it's much harder.
George512 wrote:...P.P.S, I'd also like to add that, had I studied pure CS, rather than Games Development, I probably wouldn't even have a clue what a race condition was. Our award specifically covers a compulsory parallel programming and concurrency module, which is optional for CS students (only a handful of which have chosen). So perhaps you picked the wrong example when looking to emphasise your "cool" point . All the best
There's a lot of truth to that. When I was studying for my degree (at Bristol, in the UK - considered one of the best places for Engineering - they received top marks for their teaching abilities whilst I was there), I took a course called "C++", it wasn't until I graduated and started work that I realized that the guy teaching us C++ was in fact teaching us "C" - and had no idea of the difference! This sums up my opinion of the UK education industry. A supposedly top-level establishment, with a lecturer being well-paid to teach something that he had no idea of, let alone understanding the basic concepts. Simply incredible.
It seems like they're teaching you good real-world stuff, I've found here in Canada that the ex-Polytechnic type colleges teach skills far more akin to real-world experience than the universities - and for a fraction of the price. The more classical universities teach good background material, and that's valuable to a certain level, but not when it comes to actually getting a job. As an employer, it's the real-world, hands-on stuff that we're interested in, "How would you resolve a race condition?", "What's deadlock?", "What affects interrupt latency in the kernel?", etc...
I think to some extent, these problems are what's pulling down the UK economy, too much of the wrong sort of education.
Good luck with your training, George.
Ha, yes I can definitely relate to what you're saying there. For a start, Glamorgan, where I'm studying, is actually an ex-polytechnic who pride themselves on offering highly vocational/useful education. I can vouch for that!
The world of academe is a complex and varied one. I've met and hired some outstanding "former poly" students whose institutions were also outstanding. I've also visited a few where standards were awful. A good degree from a good institution is a valuable career tool. The value of others varies!
I've recruited around Europe (and a bit in the USA) and faced some of the confusion - Genghis' conversion table is a good illustration! I have a chart (somewhere) which attempts to categorise various academic levels and equate them from one country and institution to another. It is a tad contentious in parts - for example, an Italian PhD is shown as equivalent to a UK MA, an Oxford/Cambridge MA is equivalent to a UK BA (unless the MA is a "postgrad" one, rather than the normal "paid the fees" one). Full Professor is Full Professor in most places, although the title at some smaller rural US universities may not carry as much weight.
In Germany, an Honorary Professorship is offered to businessmen, engineers, and the like who have contributed significantly to the university by running classes, teaching, lecturing, etc. It's a bit like an OBE for services to education, conferred by the University rather than the Government. My respected engineering colleague Werner got his after about 20 years of dedicated effort.
..and apart from roads, bridges, docks, harbours, airports, dams, fresh drinking water, sanitation,irrigation, skyscrapers, hydro electric schemes and power stations what have civil engineers (with our mechanical and electrical colleagues) ever done for us?
lkamsner wrote:I am staring down the barrel of 50 years old and am still looking for a career.. guess I'll never have one
Excellent! Well done. What's the difference between a job and a career anyway? I'm lucky to have a job I enjoy, I've never called it a career. Wouldn't occur to me.
No, I claim the top of the boring league table - try four months dived in a nuc boat. I tell you, you really appreciate green things like trees, grass, a blue sky and rain on your face (and a bit of beaver of course) after that lot.
Antagonise no man, for you never know the hour when you may have need of him.
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. All the best 
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